Playoffs Thread

[Enscheff]

While the Braves are doing their best to dumb down the FO, the Astros credit their analytics group for helping them beat the Yankees:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/10/al-notes-astros-sabathia-rays-odorizzi-orioles-2.html

Afterward, pitching coach Brent Strom told Rosenthal: “I’ve got to hand this to our analytics people. “They said, ‘Listen, this is where we’re making our mistakes. We need to throw as many curveballs as possible. This is a good fastball-hitting team.'”

McCullers threw 24 straight curves to end the game. The Yankees couldn't touch them. The Astros treated the Yankees like a lineup full of Swansons.

 

[Millwood1Hitter]

Just imagine if the Astros had a guy like Walt Weiss in their dugout, the series probably would have been over in 5. LMFAO

 

[nsacpi]

Credit McCann too for incorporating the information and calling a great game. He called much different games for Morton and McCullers.

 

[Knucksie]

Charlie Morton is pitching a Game 7. Crazy.

I've got an official lineup card. He was starter with the Gwinnett Braves. Will pull it out after returning home tomorrow.

 

[50PoundHead]

Official beer of the Astros?

Anyway, where does the distinction between good scouting and analytics diverge? If the Yankees can't hit curveballs, wouldn't any halfway decent observer pick that up? If Strom needs to have analytics to discern the weaknesses of Yankee hitters, my estimation of him has fallen a bit. I'm not anti-analytics, but in this instance it just seems to be a more organized method of charting.

 

[Enscheff]

Official beer of the Astros?

Anyway, where does the distinction between good scouting and analytics diverge? If the Yankees can't hit curveballs, wouldn't any halfway decent observer pick that up? If Strom needs to have analytics to discern the weaknesses of Yankee hitters, my estimation of him has fallen a bit. I'm not anti-analytics, but in this instance it just seems to be a more organized method of charting.

Well let's see...

Analytics allowed teams like the A's and Rays to compete at the highest level with the top spenders until....

...the top spenders started investing heavily on analytics. "Charting" can not identify anything with the precision and breadth of statcast data, which literally sees everything.

I realize sports is where dumb people go so they don't have to feel bad about being dumb. I realize it's unsettling when the smart people start to take over the place dumb people used to feel safe. I realize it hurts Frenchy's ego to be told what's really important in baseball by a guy who can't even play catch. I realize it's hard to swallow the fact that "smart guys" like Glavine aren't really very smart compared to actual smart guys.

The smart people are still right, despite the dumb people kicking and screaming about it. Just like we have accepted the fact professional athletes are 100x better than the average joe at sports, we need to accept the fact that professional analysts are 100x better than the average joe at analyzing data.

 

[CyYoung31]

Well let's see...

Analytics allowed teams like the A's and Rays to compete at the highest level with the top spenders until....

...the top spenders started investing heavily on analytics. "Charting" can not identify anything with the precision and breadth of statcast data, which literally sees everything.

I realize sports is where dumb people go so they don't have to feel bad about being dumb. I realize it's unsettling when the smart people start to take over the place dumb people used to feel safe. I realize it hurts Frenchy's ego to be told what's really important in baseball by a guy who can't even play catch. I realize it's hard to swallow the fact that "smart guys" like Glavine aren't really very smart compared to actual smart guys.

The smart people are still right, despite the dumb people kicking and screaming about it. Just like we have accepted the fact professional athletes are 100x better than the average joe at sports, we need to accept the fact that professional analysts are 100x better than the average joe at analyzing data.

So glad you decided, once again, to make something confrontational that wasn't the least bit confrontational.

 

[nsacpi]

Chuck LaMar to Andrew Friedman...bit by bit the wheel turns...it is a question of how fast

 

[Carp]

The Astros went 12 years between pennants. The Braves have now gone 18 and counting. Let that sink in.

The Zombie Expos have yet to make it out of the first round despite having the 2 best prospects of the last 15-20 years fall in their laps. So that makes me feel better.

 

[thewupk]

The Zombie Expos have yet to make it out of the first round despite having the 2 best prospects of the last 15-20 years fall in their laps. So that makes me feel better.

I wouldn't consider Strasburg one of the top 2 prospects in the last 15-20 years.

 

[msstate7]

I wouldn't consider Strasburg one of the top 2 prospects in the last 15-20 years.

At the time, he was a huge prospect.

 

[thewupk]

At the time, he was a huge prospect.

I am aware. I just don't think he's #2 in the past 15-20 years. Yes I am being anal about it.

 

[chop2chip]

I wouldn't consider Strasburg one of the top 2 prospects in the last 15-20 years.

As a draft prospect, I would argue he probably was (or at least close enough that it's an agreeable position).

As a minor league prospect, he would be high up there but still behind a number of position player prospects.

 

[clvclv]

I am aware. I just don't think he's #2 in the past 15-20 years. Yes I am being anal about it.

As a guy widely touted as the best pitching prospect in generations, that's a tough argument to win.

 

[Knucksie]

So glad you decided, once again, to make something confrontational that wasn't the least bit confrontational.

Wonder if anybody else noticed that a certain someone acted as if not being able to play catch was some sort of badge of honor.

 

[thewupk]

As a guy widely touted as the best pitching prospect in generations, that's a tough argument to win.

I agree. But I would argue a few position prospects that are ahead of him.

 

[50PoundHead]

Well let's see...

Analytics allowed teams like the A's and Rays to compete at the highest level with the top spenders until....

...the top spenders started investing heavily on analytics. "Charting" can not identify anything with the precision and breadth of statcast data, which literally sees everything.

I realize sports is where dumb people go so they don't have to feel bad about being dumb. I realize it's unsettling when the smart people start to take over the place dumb people used to feel safe. I realize it hurts Frenchy's ego to be told what's really important in baseball by a guy who can't even play catch. I realize it's hard to swallow the fact that "smart guys" like Glavine aren't really very smart compared to actual smart guys.

The smart people are still right, despite the dumb people kicking and screaming about it. Just like we have accepted the fact professional athletes are 100x better than the average joe at sports, we need to accept the fact that professional analysts are 100x better than the average joe at analyzing data.

I'm not looking for a fight here (and I'll put my GREs up against anyone on this board). I appreciate what analytics can do when comparing the value of Player A against Player B, but I don't think anything the A's did with statistics had that much to do with their successful run. They had a great core of young players (especially starting pitchers) that put them in a position to win until they couldn't afford them anymore. The Rays are a somewhat different story, but Friedman's genius really came from insisting that young pitchers come back to the Rays in almost every deal.

It's just with the in-game stuff that I'm not seeing that much of a difference. The relative strengths and weaknesses of players are fairly apparent. It comes down to execution.

 

[Carp]

I am aware. I just don't think he's #2 in the past 15-20 years. Yes I am being anal about it.

I feel he was, at least at the time he was drafted. I can't think of another player with as much hype on him coming into the draft other than Harper.

 

[Enscheff]

I'm not looking for a fight here (and I'll put my GREs up against anyone on this board). I appreciate what analytics can do when comparing the value of Player A against Player B, but I don't think anything the A's did with statistics had that much to do with their successful run. They had a great core of young players (especially starting pitchers) that put them in a position to win until they couldn't afford them anymore. The Rays are a somewhat different story, but Friedman's genius really came from insisting that young pitchers come back to the Rays in almost every deal.

It's just with the in-game stuff that I'm not seeing that much of a difference. The relative strengths and weaknesses of players are fairly apparent. It comes down to execution.

There is no fight to be had. There are facts, and then there are non-facts. I'm sure you filled out the bubbles on that multiple choice test like a whiz, but that doesn't change facts.

You do realize the A's determination that OBP was the most undervalued stat was the key to their early success, right? How else did they make that determination other than being the first team to study the correlation of different stats to winning?

Statistical and value analysis is what Money Ball was all about. Now teams are building off that. The most successful teams are the smartest teams analytically, and the Braves are slowly being left in the dust with every dinosaur they hire. A below average payroll and a braintrust that wastes resources like it's still the 90s is not a winning combination.

 

[thewupk]

I feel he was, at least at the time he was drafted. I can't think of another player with as much hype on him coming into the draft other than Harper.

I would agree with that. He had super hype due to his 100 MPH fastball he had going for him. But to me hype is just that.