Political Correctness

57Brave said:
That seems to be the direction you are going.
The Atlantic made a business decision and NYT made a business decision.

_shrug_

We seem to agree, the only cure for speech we find offensive is more speech
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Weird that Mr. Markets is so wound up about companies being responsive to their customer base.
 
Julio3000 said:
Oh, I’ll own it. As often as you complain about what you perceive as baseless accusations of racism, I’ll get in on some of that, too. What you seem to perceive as anti-white racism is, IMO, neither racism nor particularly troublesome.

Meanwhile, Candace Owens just got banned from twitter from taking SJ's words and replacing "white" with "jew"

The difference is, I guess, that I’m not swimming in the toxic racist stew that includes actual eliminationist rhetoric against Jews, Muslims, immigrants, or POC, or otherwise going to bat for those who do.
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Hopefully we can get to a point where white people stop having babies and we can officially cancel them.

We'd all be better off
 
Julio, why don't you see it as racism ? And why don't you see it as troublesome?

And would you see it the same way if the races were reversed?
 
sturg33 said:
Julio, why don't you see it as racism ? And why don't you see it as troublesome?

And would you see it the same way if the races were reversed?
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The n-word can be a horrific slur or a term of endearment, depending on who’s using it. Queer can be a slur or a word of empowerment, depending on context. Racism is impossible to decouple from power dynamics and arguments for superiority/inferiority among races. So unless there’s some broader context to suggest that Sarah Jeong thinks that whites are inferior to Asians, I’m not really feeling what she tweeted as racist. Maybe it’s ill-advised to use generalized language, sure. But trying to fit racism into a cut-and-paste situation is tiresome and weak sauce.
 
I like her position on cops though. Its clear her opinion comes out of ignorance and hate though. She gives people who root for dead cops a bad name.
 
Julio3000 said:
. But trying to fit racism into a cut-and-paste situation is tiresome and weak sauce.
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The irony here is hilarious.

You do realize the left essentially calls everyone on the right a racist, for just about any reason

Hell I think it was you who called Trump a racist about his LeBron tweet.

Love that you projected there but SJ gets your defense.

The double standards are strong with this one
 
Your argument here, for years, hasn’t evolved beyond “why is it ok for THEM to say it?,” which most people grow out of in, like, high school.
 
I guess I'm just on the crazy belief that not.onpy is all racist speech bad, but that we certainly shouldn't defending it

But the left cannot get there

Do you think SJ can objectively and rationally work with white men? Could she people a people leader of white men?

I think her speech has proven she's can't be an objective person
 
sturg33 said:
I guess I'm just on the crazy belief that not.onpy is all racist speech bad, but that we certainly shouldn't defending it

But the left cannot get there

Do you think SJ can objectively and rationally work with white men? Could she people a people leader of white men?

I think her speech has proven she's can't be an objective person
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I assume you’re trolling because I cannot fathom, and I say this in all seriousness, that you could legitimately be of that opinion.
 
Julio3000 said:
I assume you’re trolling because I cannot fathom, and I say this in all seriousness, that you could legitimately be of that opinion.
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Do you remember the case of James Damore, the guy fired by Google for his analysis of why there were not more women in tech.

I think in both the Damore case and the Sarah Jeong case, it is possible that their words and actions have damaged their ability to work with certain people. It is something their employers need to weigh. I'm not saying the cases are identical. But I think in both cases it is plausible that some other employees will have difficulty working with them. Of course, there is a lot of context that their respective employers need to weigh. And possible that a fair look at the entirety of their circumstances will lead to different conclusions. But I don't think it is crazy to see some similarities.
 
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Julio3000 said:
I assume you’re trolling because I cannot fathom, and I say this in all seriousness, that you could legitimately be of that opinion.
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I am literally living this right now where a woman cannot objectively manage men bc of her pejudice.

If i said black people should stop breeding, should I be managing black people?

I still don't understand why any racist speech is acceptable? If you want to make an argument that some is worse than others, go for it.

But why on Earth do you wanna be on the side defending any racist speech?
 
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nsacpi said:
I actually think this is an interesting question. Do you remember the case of James Damore, the guy fired by Google for his analysis of why there were not more women in tech.

I think in both the Damore case and the Sarah Jeong case, it is possible that their words and actions have damaged their ability to work with certain people. It is something their employers need to weigh. I'm not saying the cases are identical. But I think in both cases it is plausible that some other employees will have difficulty working with them. Of course, there is a lot of context that their respective employers need to weigh. And possible that a fair look at the entirety of their circumstances will lead to different conclusions. But I don't think it is crazy to see some similarities.
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Yeah, perhaps. I’m just questioning some of the underlying assumptions about SJ’s ability to objectively work with white men. You think she’s been working in a bubble that doesn’t include white men? She was an associate editor at Vice, which reportedly has a notorious toxic culture of harassment towards women. Damore, on the other hand, achieved his measure of celebrity by arguing against a fairly common-sense and empirically-supported idea that recruiting more women into certain tech fields would help alleviate a prospective labor crisis. Should he have been fired for that? I dunno. Probably not, but I think he crossed the Rubicon by allowing himself to be co-opted by certain culture-war forces in the aftermath.

I made reference to this in my first post on the subject, but I’ll repeat it. When I hear or read people of color making salty generalizations about “white people” my first instinct is to simply shut my mouth and open my ears. Why? Because I’m both conscious of my privilege and conscious of the many ways that I have personally observed non-whites and non-males chronically getting the short end.

A personal example on the gender front. My wife, who is an attorney with a very cut-and-dried, rule-following mindset and a very direct style of communication, got more or less chased out of a job because of that communication style. One of the board members in her org was also an attorney with a similar communication style, but who was never considered a problem child like Sra. Julio was. In her exit interview, another board member (an old white guy, bless his heart) who had advocated for her said “ I think we have to consider that some people won’t accept hearing the same thing from a woman that they do from a man.” We’re still there.

I mean, I get that your personal perspective has left you feeling like your opinion is devalued. But why that should send you one one particular direction, rather than promoting a feeling of empathy for people who’ve ALWAYS been in that position is something I’ve had a hard time understanding. I recently started a new job after a decade-and-a-half of working for myself. There are two layers of management above me, which are 100% female, and I’ll tell you that the only conflict I’ve felt is along class lines, not people’s biological wiring.
 
I assume your last paragraph is to me.

And what I'm saying is that SJs rhetoric towards white people should be a red flag. She has never mete and yet she has a decisively nagative opinion of me.

The fact that it isnt an issue for many is striking, to me
 
Well, without co-signing what you’re saying, what occurs to me is what I said already. If you feel that way, why don’t you feel more empathy towards folks who are routinely pre-judged based on unchosen facts of biology?
 
Julio3000 said:
Well, without co-signing what you’re saying, what occurs to me is what I said already. If you feel that way, why don’t you feel more empathy towards folks who are routinely pre-judged based on unchosen facts of biology?
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You don't have that same standard to white people who you've deemed racist, do you?
 
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