Political Correctness

57Brave said:
what do you know about science and reason ?
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Julio3000 said:
I'm still not convinced that you understand the magnitude of the fact that you're STILL making the exact same argument that was used to marginalize homosexuals for decades. Like, to the letter.
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I guess I'll repeat myself.

I wasn't around then.

I am pro gay rights and was a decade ago

I don't believe we should call a man a woman because of feelings. Or vice versa.

Because science tells us what genders are. This isn't complicated. But I do believe it is a top platform for liberals. I believe it's a losing platform. So please continue.

I think the story listed above is pretty sad. A dude beat a bunch of girls at racing. Good for him, I guess?
 
Julio3000 said:
I'm still not convinced that you understand the magnitude of the fact that you're STILL making the exact same argument that was used to marginalize homosexuals for decades. Like, to the letter.
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Do you really believe that a man can think he’s a woman and he should be classified as a woman?
 
Julio3000 said:
I'm still not convinced that you understand the magnitude of the fact that you're STILL making the exact same argument that was used to marginalize homosexuals for decades. Like, to the letter.
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Non weight to the fact that homosexuality has been in existence for thousands of years while teansgenserism as we know it is a recent phenomenon?
 
thethe said:
Non weight to the fact that homosexuality has been in existence for thousands of years while teansgenserism as we know it is a recent phenomenon?
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Homosexuality was taken off the mental health lists due to activism and Public outcry not because of any scientific findings that it isn’t a mental illness
 
Krgrecw said:
Homosexuality was taken off the mental health lists due to activism and Public outcry not because of any scientific findings that it isn’t a mental illness
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Homosexuality has been around for ages. I understand you're very socially conservative but I do not believe it is a mental disorder.
 
Julio3000 said:
You sure about that?
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Yeah, the only thing new about transgenderism is our ability to medically allow people to transition. I’d imagine access to such care is part of its prevalence in the public sphere compared to previous generations.
 
sturg33 said:
I guess I'll repeat myself.

I wasn't around then.

I am pro gay rights and was a decade ago

I don't believe we should call a man a woman because of feelings. Or vice versa.

Because science tells us what genders are. This isn't complicated. But I do believe it is a top platform for liberals. I believe it's a losing platform. So please continue.

I think the story listed above is pretty sad. A dude beat a bunch of girls at racing. Good for him, I guess?
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The fact that you weren't around or politically conscious at the time does not make the fact irrelevant.

Gay marriage was a winning issue for Republicans at least through 2004... States put anti-gay marriage amendments on the ballot in order to drive turnout for Bush. It was, until it wasn't, and that turn came quickly.

If the issue is of basic compassion or fairness, I'd rather be ahead of the curve and on the right side than behind the curve for short-term political benefit, and on the wrong side.

I don't think it's a top-drawer issue, and I also think that you're ignoring the fact that it's social conservatives who are driving the bus here--see the "bathroom bills," etc. Actually, that may be an instructive example if you look at NC in 2016. The state went for Trump and R Senate candidate, but the incumbent R governor lost because of his association with their extremely onerous anti-LGBT bill...which speaks to the fact that the issue got traction beyond the left.
 
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Julio3000 said:
The fact that you weren't around or politically conscious at the time does not make the fact irrelevant.

Gay marriage was a winning issue for Republicans at least through 2004... States put anti-gay marriage amendments on the ballot in order to drive turnout for Bush. It was, until it wasn't, and that turn came quickly.

If the issue is of basic compassion or fairness, I'd rather be ahead of the curve and on the right side than behind the curve for short-term political benefit, and on the wrong side.

I don't think it's a top-drawer issue, and I also think that you're ignoring the fact that it's social conservatives who are driving the bus here--see the "bathroom bills," etc. Actually, that may be an instructive example if you look at NC in 2016. The state went for Trump and R Senate candidate, but the incumbent R governor lost because of his association with their extremely onerous anti-LGBT bill...which speaks to the fact that the issue got traction beyond the left.
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Very much this. If the issue of rights for trans-people is a losing one politically, I’d rather the left go down swinging on that topic. As with all things related to transgendered people, I just can’t help but question which direction does more to benefit people, and every time it seems as though more inclusive policies provide transgendered people with basic rights and dignities at no real cost to anybody else. I’ll happily accept a teenager losing a ****ing track meet over telling a separate teenager they don’t belong.
 
What rights are trans people denied?

I don't think a dude playing female sports is a right. I don't think me worrying about getting pronouns right is a right. Do you?
 
The other point is, it's a mental illness. Rather than celebrate it, we should encourage them to get treatment.

The suicide rate of trans people is something like 5x everyone else... It's a mental illness.

And now we have teachers telling 5 year olds about their gender options.
 
sturg33 said:
The other point is, it's a mental illness. Rather than celebrate it, we should encourage them to get treatment.

The suicide rate of trans people is something like 5x everyone else... It's a mental illness.

And now we have teachers telling 5 year olds about their gender options.
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Do you really think there isn’t a correlation between that figure and the way you’re literally discussing it in the same sentence?
 
oh a mental illness --

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sturg33 said:
What rights are trans people denied?

I don't think a dude playing female sports is a right. I don't think me worrying about getting pronouns right is a right. Do you?
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Mqt, to your earlier point, what are your thoughts here. What rights are we denying?
 
sturg33 said:
Mqt, to your earlier point, what are your thoughts here. What rights are we denying?
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In general, just the ability to fully live their lives as the gender they identify with. Restrictive policies regarding things like bathrooms, athletics and some other miscellaneous things where they’re forced to act in a manner inconsistent with who they are.
 
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