Potential for a once in a lifetime haul this summer for the minors

smootness said:
This hasn't yet been a goal of his.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure this is accurate. Their stated goal was to improve this year, and the moves they made to accomplish that consisted of signings like Bonifacio and Beckham, trades for Olivera and Aybar, and giving a full time spot in the starting lineup to Garcia (who every single semi-knowledgeable poster here, as well as every single writer not affiliated with the Braves declared was not an MLB caliber player from day 1).

Meanwhile, a guy like Freese sat on the FA market forever and ended up signing for peanuts with the Pirates where he is posting his typical 2 WAR season at a position (3B) of extreme need for the Braves. Cespedes ended up signing what will amount to a 1 year contract and has hit 3x as many HRs as all the Braves OFers combined. No actual MLB caliber BP arm was brought in to fix the BP, which is the single easiest/cheapest area of a ball club to improve.

Those are not the types of personnel decisions that inspire much confidence in Coppy's ability to construct a competitive MLB roster.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm not so sure this is accurate. Their stated goal was to improve this year, and the moves they made to accomplish that consisted of signings like Bonifacio and Beckham, trades for Olivera and Aybar, and giving a full time spot in the starting lineup to Garcia (who every single semi-knowledgeable poster here, as well as every single writer not affiliated with the Braves declared was not an MLB caliber player from day 1).
Click to expand...

Right, so what do these things tell you? Perhaps that we actually didn't care much about improving this year?

It just seems strange to say something like, 'I question our ability to make the necessary moves at the major league level to compete. After all, in the middle of a massive rebuild, we let Adonis Garcia play 3B.'

We didn't make obvious, cheap moves that would have made us better. The obvious answer is that we weren't really trying to get better.
 
smootness said:
I guess, but that's sort of like saying a 1st year guy has to prove himself. It's obvious. I didn't mean to make a big statement about it, just saying.
Click to expand...

You may think it's essentially inconsequential, and that's cool. I think it's important and not a forgone conclusion, but that's not saying I expect him to fail.
 
smootness said:
Right, so what do these things tell you? Perhaps that we actually didn't care much about improving this year?

It just seems strange to say something like, 'I question our ability to make the necessary moves at the major league level to compete. After all, in the middle of a massive rebuild, we let Adonis Garcia play 3B.'

We didn't make obvious, cheap moves that would have made us better. The obvious answer is that we weren't really trying to get better.
Click to expand...

I hope that's the case, or the Braves are in serious trouble. The FO either lied for 3 months, or has no idea how to assemble a MLB roster.

I hope they are liars...
 
Enscheff said:
I hope that's the case, or the Braves are in serious trouble. The FO either lied for 3 months, or has no idea how to assemble a MLB roster.

I hope they are liars...
Click to expand...

I definitely don't think they thought this team was going to compete. I think they just tried to sell that to the fanbase.

I thought it was a dumb thing to say then and still do, because it was always going to backfired...but I'm pretty confident that's what they were doing.
 
bravos4evr said:
No sane front office is going to announce to the public "come on down and watch what will certainly be a terrible team! buy up our luxury boxes and season tickets and watch us lose 100 games!"

so, lying???? not really. SELLING??? absolutely.
Click to expand...

agreed. i don't understand why people don't take what any FO says with a grain of salt, all the time.
 
Enscheff said:
I hope that's the case, or the Braves are in serious trouble. The FO either lied for 3 months, or has no idea how to assemble a MLB roster.

I hope they are liars...
Click to expand...

I mean, I'm sure they hoped that players like Beckham, Flowers, Olivera and Garcia would be improvements over last year, but I doubt they genuinely were counting on it.
 
yeezus said:
agreed. i don't understand why people don't take what any FO says with a grain of salt, all the time.
Click to expand...

It's like the people who get pissed when their favorite college football team's coach says "I'm staying here as long as I can" then bolts for the NFL or Alabama for twice the money and prestige.

They lie because their position doesn't really give them any choice.
 
yeezus said:
agreed. i don't understand why people don't take what any FO says with a grain of salt, all the time.
Click to expand...

Yup. Examples would be Coppy saying we wanted a college bat in the draft then saying a HS player. None of it should be taken too seriously.
 
Enscheff said:
I hope that's the case, or the Braves are in serious trouble. The FO either lied for 3 months, or has no idea how to assemble a MLB roster.

I hope they are liars...
Click to expand...

I think they honestly thought Oliver was going to be a solid LF. That Aybar would be an avg defender and hitter. Thought JT and FF would be better. Markakis would be a 2 WAR player off of neck surgery. Inciarte would be a many WAR player.

I think they thought we'd be better. And there is reason to concern us that they thought that way.

That said, it's still early. I didn't see Olivera being terrible at baseball and at life. Some say they did, but I didn't think Aybar would go to worst player ever. Inciarte got hurt like the 3rd game. Our schedule was BRUTAL.

It wouldn't shock me if we pass the Phils.
 
Enscheff said:
The keys to sustaining success are:

Cash in players for new prospects when they have 1-2 years of control remaining. Call up prospects to replace them, and continue that cycle.

Avoid dead money contracts at almost all costs. This means no long term commitments to pitchers into their 30s, and no shopping at the top of the FA market.

When a gap in the "prospect replaces young veteran" cycle inevitably has a gap, sign a FA veteran to a short contract. Avoid guys that will cost a draft pick.

Sign young position players to contracts early that buy out a couple FA years. Only extend pitchers through their 20s, but option years into their early 30s are fine. Don't be stupid and extend bad players like CJ.

In short, maintain maximum roster and financial flexibility.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head with this one. The big risk is being able to develop talent. If you can't do that, you're going to be stuck in a cycle of mediocrity for many years to come. That's one thing that scares me about this rebuild. Just hope we see further development out of our lower minor league guys.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm not so sure this is accurate. Their stated goal was to improve this year, and the moves they made to accomplish that consisted of signings like Bonifacio and Beckham, trades for Olivera and Aybar, and giving a full time spot in the starting lineup to Garcia (who every single semi-knowledgeable poster here, as well as every single writer not affiliated with the Braves declared was not an MLB caliber player from day 1).

Meanwhile, a guy like Freese sat on the FA market forever and ended up signing for peanuts with the Pirates where he is posting his typical 2 WAR season at a position (3B) of extreme need for the Braves. Cespedes ended up signing what will amount to a 1 year contract and has hit 3x as many HRs as all the Braves OFers combined. No actual MLB caliber BP arm was brought in to fix the BP, which is the single easiest/cheapest area of a ball club to improve.

Those are not the types of personnel decisions that inspire much confidence in Coppy's ability to construct a competitive MLB roster.
Click to expand...

Ouch. I am still trying to give Coppy the benefit of the doubt, but that's a rather stinging indictment right there.
 
I'm glad Coppy didn't get Freese. We'd have more wins and would threaten our #1 pick status. As Joker said "it's all part of the plan".
 
The Don said:
I'm glad Coppy didn't get Freese. We'd have more wins and would threaten our #1 pick status. As Joker said "it's all part of the plan".
Click to expand...

Freese MIGHT have helped us win about an extra game, and my guess is he would look pretty bad in this lineup.
 
yeezus said:
Freese MIGHT have helped us win about an extra game, and my guess is he would look pretty bad in this lineup.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. However, that doesn't change the central point which was that the FO had an opportunity (and the money, which is rare) to bring in some guys who might have had some trade deadline value and they mostly didn't do that.

I think the FO has been pretty good in a number of areas in the rebuilding process but they have missed on a number of opportunities. I "think" it probably goes back to the whole "compete while rebuilding" philosophy which never works and is really detrimental to a most effective rebuild. The Olivera, Markakis and AJ moves all have to be looked at as moves to help a "win now" approach and not moving Markakis when they had a chance can only be defended as a move concerned for today as opposed to when you hope to be good with your young players. They probably can't give Markakis away now and they are on the hook for the rest of his contract. Think about this: in 2018 when the young guys are hopefully blossoming into a team that can be a real threat, you are going to have a RF making about 1/10 of your available payroll who is on a severe decline and has little useful value.
 
The reason why you will not see me criticize this front office that much for their moves is this. They set out to make sure they did not make a move that cost the team any of their capital towards the rebuild, which means they weren't going to sign anyone that cost them draft picks. So, you saw them take chances on some players like Gordon Beckham. The biggest mistake they made was trading a young left handed pitcher with a controlled salary for a 31 year old prospect who had not shown power in his small sample size. That was a bad move that I criticized at the time it happened. I did not like trading Alex Wood in that deal, and I still don't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top