Primaries.

And why is the average still so high? Because money has filitered up even worse after the market collapse. The housing bubble happened because we weren't making more money but inflation keeps going up.

Even with just a typical 2% annual increase in home values though you would have a reasonable median net worth. Sure the inflation increased net worth more than it should have been, but there still would be decent net worth growth. The problem is that home values absolutely tanked and IRA's and 401 K's were murdered. That's a lot of net worth that was just annihilated by the financial and housing collapse. So again you're taking a snap shot in time and using that to judge the economy of the country based on a once in a lifetime financial collapse. You can't just ignore that we had the worst recession since the Great Depression and it arguably could've been worse if not for the bailout.... which by the way is the big reason the wealthy haven't slid much if at all.
 
What does a 2% increase in home value do for your ability to pay the bills? Take out more loans? Get more in debt? Sell your home and move into a ****tier one?
 
What does a 2% increase in home value do for your ability to pay the bills? Take out more loans? Get more in debt? Sell your home and move into a ****tier one?

You posted median net worth earlier. Obviously if your retirement plan gets hit and your home value goes down then your net wealth/worth goes down. I'm just pointing out the main reason why middle class net worth was so low. You argued we need radical change because of our relative low median net worth. And I'm just saying that the relatively low median net worth is probably temporary.

But since you brought up paying bills, obviously unemployment had a huge impact on median net worth as well. You need a job to pay your bills.

Not saying that the economy doesn't need tweaks. Better social and vocational counseling would go a long way. Plenty of help is out there for the poor, but folks need help figuring out how to get it.
 
You posted median net worth earlier. Obviously if your retirement plan gets hit and your home value goes down then your net wealth/worth goes down. I'm just pointing out the main reason why middle class net worth was so low. You argued we need radical change because of our relative low median net worth. And I'm just saying that the relatively low median net worth is probably temporary.

But since you brought up paying bills, obviously unemployment had a huge impact on median net worth as well. You need a job to pay your bills.

Not saying that the economy doesn't need tweaks. Better social and vocational counseling would go a long way. Plenty of help is out there for the poor, but folks need help figuring out how to get it.

But wouldn't a housing crash and financial crash mean all parts of the economy would be equally hurt? maybe even more hurt in thte upper class since they are like 90% of the stock market or some **** like that and they own a much bigger piece of the housing market value? What really happened was the average American got ****ed by the collapse and then bailed out the rich ****ers who caused that to happen making them even richer.
 
Yeah I think a combination of the bailout and the rich being better investors made it easier for them to recover. The middle class got hammered and the rich got hit, but not as hard and have recovered for the most part.

I think higher taxes for the wealthy and higher salaries for the poor would really only have a minor effect on median net worth. Jobs, houses and retirement investment are what's needed for the middle class. Salary will come along with that. Need to figure out the student loan debt issue as well.
 
But as someone who had so much money tied into the market and housing they should have been hit as hard if not harder, and they got bailed out. And of course they had money so when the stocks inevitably went up, they increased a healthy amount. I made out pretty well myself from the collapse by putting more money into my 401K than I was doing before hand and it's gone up significantly for me, but I had the means to do that, most people didn't because they had other responsibilities than funding their drinking.
 
You're not left socially. You dont' believe in marriage equality, you dont' believe in abortion rights, and many more

About the only left thing I can think of off the top of my head you're left leaning on is welfare cause you know what kind of **** wold go down if it was repealed and I think maybe healthcare. I don't recall if you're universal healthcare or not.

I am not talking about me, I am talking about the United States as whole.

As for your other part here is what I believe in.

Union, not marriage, that word is reserved for the church, that is my view and will remain, never ever change. Government can call it whatever they want, it is union to me, they have the right to have all the same privileges as any other couple. I don't believe in abortion because it is murder. If I hit a pregnant woman with my car and the unborn is killed and mom lives, I get murder 2 by vehicular manslaughter, but if the same woman, decided three months down the road and terminate unborn, nothing happens to her. So someone explain that fallacy to me.

And you are correct about where I lean left on, two things, welfare for those who are unable to fend for themselves and two outsourcing jobs that can be done here in the states, but instead we fatten up another country while our own can't find a fvcking job.

As for Healthcare, do not like what has been done now, how it was implemented and how the people been lied to, mainly the lied to part in several things. I don't have to worry, my company pays for my health insurance which is far less ($200 for a family of four) if I had to go through with Obamination Care.

I would like it set up like the German way. If you want care on the gov dime, you get the basic services, but if you want more expensive care then you pay for it (usually the German employer pays an insurance on top of regular services like they do here)

Since Obamination care has come into effect, ER is much more busier than ever and we are losing doctors in the process.
 
Don't have to. All you do is defend anything the man says or do and by that definition you are far far left. If his sh!t stinks, and it does, you think it smells like perfume. By definition far left people are called "sheeple" for a reason and you are one of them.

I have yet to see you say anything bad about this terrible president. He is almost bad as Bush....err Cheney, almost, ways to go before he gets to Carter level, but I see a lot similarities.

This kind of gets under my skin a bit. What makes him more of a "sheeple" than you? You are going to spend the rest of your life and have probably already wasted a good portion of it arguing left vs. right. When was the last time we had anyone come in and save the day for America? The same pool of dip****s you vote for work for the same pool of dip****s Keith votes for. You're both dip****s for voting for either of them. You're stuck in an endless cycle of debating this pointless debate while your heroes up in office legislate your rights, your money and your future away and into the hands of themselves and their big business buddies. They send you to war, take your jobs away, raise your prices, tax your money and allow people to corrupt the services that were put in place to protect you. Yet every 4 or 8 years you go out and vote them right back into office. Doesn't it seem ridiculous to you? You're trying to act like you're partial to either party by saying Clinton was your favorite. Yeah the country wasn't in a recession at that time. All he did was sell the future of our country up the river to China so the big businesses that will forever line his pockets can get even bigger. Other than that, he sure was swell wasn't he?

I'm voting Zito for pres. He owns you all here.
 
Frank Rich:

Q: Eric Cantor, the Majority Leader of the House of Representatives, was ousted last night in his Republican party primary by an unknown economics professor named David Brat. Cantor's loss is one of the most shocking political upsets of recent years, not only because House leaders simply don't get ousted in primaries, but also because virtually no one in the national media seems to have considered the possibility that this could happen, much less predicted it. How the hell did Cantor lose? And what does this say about the state of the so-called GOP civil war?

A: Cantor’s fall, and the fact that no one in the mainstream press saw it coming, is yet another indication that the biggest political story since Obama’s 2008 victory remains baffling to many. How many times can one say this? The radical right — whether it uses the tea party rubric or not — has seized control of one of America’s two major political parties. The repeated reports of the tea party’s demise are always premature. Back in the fall of 2012, in the weeks before Obama’s reelection, I wrote a piece titled “The Tea Party Will Win in the End” making this case and arguing that signs seemingly suggesting otherwise (the tea party dropping to a 25 percent approval rating in a September 2012 Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll; the demise of Michele Bachmann) were utterly misleading. After Todd Akin & Co. were routed that November, the tea party was dead again. When a fresh round of tea-party obituaries started appearing this spring — hey, Mitch McConnell won his primary, the Establishment is back! — they, too, should have been ignored. In terms of the big picture, McConnell’s victory — achieved only after he hired Rand Paul’s campaign manager and moved further to the right — was as politically meaningless as Mitt Romney’s ultimately winning the 2012 GOP nomination. The two thirds to three quarters of 2012 GOP voters who routinely supported the candidates to Mitt’s right in primary season were the true indicator of where the party is.

Brat is an Ayn Rand conservative. Speaking with Chuck Todd of NBC News this morning, he wouldn’t even endorse a federal minimum wage. He is unambiguously opposed to immigration reform. He speaks in a populist tone. “Dollars don’t vote,” Brat said after his victory — a reference to the fact that Cantor outspent him by 26-to-1 but also a slam of the Wall Street and K Street financial and corporate elites who fattened Cantor’s campaign piggy bank. Cantor, meanwhile, was everything Brat is not: He is a favorite of the financial industry. He tried to play both sides of his party’s immigration divide by simultaneously claiming to be in favor of some kind of reform and yet doing nothing to advance a bill in the House. He may be an exemplar of right-wing villainy to liberals, but to his own party’s faithful, he was a squish.

If you listen to Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, or other voices of the grass-roots right, the base’s loathing of Cantor and possibly his primary defeat would not have come as a shock. If your sole sampling of Republican opinion is the relatively establishmentarian Fox News, you might have missed it. You certainly would have missed it if you think today’s GOP is represented by the kind of Republicans who swarm around Morning Joe, where Chris Christie and Jeb Bush are touted daily as plausible GOP saviors who might somehow get the nomination. The Times, meanwhile, ran Brat’s name only once in the past year, and was so dumbfounded by his victory that it ran a piece of analysis last night under the headline: “Why Did Cantor Lose? Not Easy to Explain.” It is quite easy to explain if you’ve been paying attention to the history of the American right since Barry Goldwater’s insurgents first took down the GOP Establishment a half-century ago. Or if you had simply turned on talk radio in the past five years

Great irony seeing that Ayn Rand was an immigrant.

kr, the rhetoric may be stonger in Europe (the rhetoric on both sides in Europe is always stronger), but if you did a blind comparison on the positions (especially on immigration), the far right here and the far right in Europe aren't all that different.

I haven't followed the election as closely as I should be following it, but this is a surprise, especially given the results of other primaries and nominating conventions. It appears the Republican establishment has been carrying the day and they still might. This could be just a blip. Primaries are low turnout elections and the more salient voting blocs determine the winner. I would hate to be Cantor's polling/strategy team. Those guys are going to have this blot on their record for a long, long time.
 
This kind of gets under my skin a bit. What makes him more of a "sheeple" than you? You are going to spend the rest of your life and have probably already wasted a good portion of it arguing left vs. right. When was the last time we had anyone come in and save the day for America? The same pool of dip****s you vote for work for the same pool of dip****s Keith votes for. You're both dip****s for voting for either of them. You're stuck in an endless cycle of debating this pointless debate while your heroes up in office legislate your rights, your money and your future away and into the hands of themselves and their big business buddies. They send you to war, take your jobs away, raise your prices, tax your money and allow people to corrupt the services that were put in place to protect you. Yet every 4 or 8 years you go out and vote them right back into office. Doesn't it seem ridiculous to you? You're trying to act like you're partial to either party by saying Clinton was your favorite. Yeah the country wasn't in a recession at that time. All he did was sell the future of our country up the river to China so the big businesses that will forever line his pockets can get even bigger. Other than that, he sure was swell wasn't he?

I'm voting Zito for pres. He owns you all here.

ummm, I don't vote Dem or Rep. The two parties are too fvcking stupid to get my vote. You know that line that says..write in....I wrote in my first born name to spite both of these parties.

Yes I liked Clinton, he was the last president I voted for (2nd time). Yeah he sold us down the river after the fact, but the fact remains he was at least close to the middle than the two idiots after him.
 
ummm, I don't vote Dem or Rep. The two parties are too fvcking stupid to get my vote. You know that line that says..write in....I wrote in my first born name to spite both of these parties.

Yes I liked Clinton, he was the last president I voted for (2nd time). Yeah he sold us down the river after the fact, but the fact remains he was at least close to the middle than the two idiots after him.

Haha I do the same.

Clinton selling us down the river was way worse than anything Obama has done.
 
Why is being close to the middle good? I'd rather have someone extreme with a party controlling congress leaning to the other side.
 
Why is being close to the middle good? I'd rather have someone extreme with a party controlling congress leaning to the other side.

Because usually those in the middle listen to both sides, Clinton was the last to do it and we got things done usually. Bush would have but that cock sucking sonofabitch Cheney and his lying ass screwed that up. Obama is a narcissist and sticks his nose up with his hands to his ears and won't listen to reason/common sense either.
 
Haha I do the same.

Clinton selling us down the river was way worse than anything Obama has done.

His mistake can be undone, but Obama is not going to do it and the Republicans won't either. We are China's bitch due to slick Willie opening up that venue, but Bush made it worse and now we are tied to it.
 
Great irony seeing that Ayn Rand was an immigrant.

kr, the rhetoric may be stonger in Europe (the rhetoric on both sides in Europe is always stronger), but if you did a blind comparison on the positions (especially on immigration), the far right here and the far right in Europe aren't all that different.

I haven't followed the election as closely as I should be following it, but this is a surprise, especially given the results of other primaries and nominating conventions. It appeared the Republican establishment has been carrying the day and they still might. This could be just a blip. Primaries are low turnout elections and the more salient voting blocs determine the winner. I would hate to be Cantor's polling/strategy team. Those guys are going to have this blot on their record for a long, long time.

Me neither. I saw where Cooter from Dukes of Hazzard was out to get him and he was in danger of losing the primary. The blog I was reading has every (R) losing his seat so I didn't pay it any attention

Radio, print and TV today tell me Cantor & his staff were not very well liked in (R) circles. a little too ambitious and a little too much of the Charles Schumer . Meaning, he liked the camera and prone to shouldering his way to the front with little regard for whose feet he stepped on. Difference? Schumer knows his place. Notice I didn't say, knew !

A House Majority Leader hasn't been beaten in a primary since 1899. and for a reason. I go back to my first days of exploring / hanging around Twitter. Was home with gout when Boehners leadership was (Spring 2011 ish) in dispute among the (R) Young guns - led by Cantor and really had fun watching the as it happens response Twitter gives. Boehner fought that one off but Cantors naked ambition was on display for everyone to see.

People talk about how Obama must be tickled today -- I think Boehner and the older (R) Reps are non to pleased to see Cantor get his.

How can you're polls be off by 34% and experienced pols stand by?

I called him a "backbencher" back then and got an earfull from the fistshakers.

Well, there ya go
 
and there is this:

"But on the policy issues and political ramifications of this race, it’s not easy to box Brat into a neat caricature of an anti-immigration zealot or Tea Party demagogue, or, in Time’s hasty reporting, a “shopworn conservative boilerplate.” If Brat ascends to Congress, which is quite likely given the Republican-leaning district that he’ll run in as the GOP nominee, he may actually continue taking on powerful elites in Washington."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/180195/eric-cantors-opponent-beat-him-calling-out-gop-corruption#
 
The Republican who defeated Eric Cantor this week believes his own party may be involved in a Benghazi cover-up.

He also argued Christianity and taxation may be incompatible.

He apparently wasn't kidding.
... See More
http://on.msnbc.com/SFRXbL
 
weso, I always got the impression that Cantor was lip-synching the Republican lyrics. Smart guy, but not an adept communicator. At least to me (but then again I'm jaded and watch these guys for a living).

57, Brat is an interesting character. He's all over the map and as religious as I am in my own beliefs, it's difficult to use the Bible as a guide to public policy. I'd have been stoned years ago (Hey wait! I was stoned years ago!). And guess what? He was born and raised in my own Minnesota.
 
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