Prospect digest 10 prospect listing

[striker42]

I seriously doubt they didn't check. Remember that he hit well in his brief stint for the Dodgers. The Dodgers likely wanted to trade him because he got hurt again, and the Braves let their beliefs about him and his potential blind them to the injury issue. That was certainly a mistake, I don't think anyone is trying to argue that the Braves weren't wrong in their assessments of him. But it's possible the injuries just held him back more than the Braves thought they would.

His stint in the Dodger's system lasted 74 PAs and topped out at AAA (where he had just 31 PAs). His stats are more the result of playing against a bunch of young guys and small sample size. When you watch this guy play for any length of time at all you quickly see that he has a slow bat and stone hands.

I can't see a way that the Braves got any kind of a good, realistic look at him and still wanted to trade for him. He's not a good player and that becomes clear very, very quickly.

It was a mistake by the front office but I'm not calling for them to be fired for it. They know they screwed up. It happens. Just have to learn from the mistake and not repeat it.

 

[smootness]

His stint in the Dodger's system lasted 74 PAs and topped out at AAA (where he had just 31 PAs). His stats are more the result of playing against a bunch of young guys and small sample size. When you watch this guy play for any length of time at all you quickly see that he has a slow bat and stone hands.

I can't see a way that the Braves got any kind of a good, realistic look at him and still wanted to trade for him. He's not a good player and that becomes clear very, very quickly.

It was a mistake by the front office but I'm not calling for them to be fired for it. They know they screwed up. It happens. Just have to learn from the mistake and not repeat it.

You only saw him after the trade, though. That's my point; regardless of who he was playing against, he was still having success. His struggles came after the trade, which is the only time we saw him. So it's possible the injuries messed him up quite a bit and he just wasn't the same player afterward. Plenty of teams wanted him before the injury, and the Dodgers were looking to eat money and dump him only after that.

 

[striker42]

You only saw him after the trade, though. That's my point; regardless of who he was playing against, he was still having success. His struggles came after the trade, which is the only time we saw him. So it's possible the injuries messed him up quite a bit and he just wasn't the same player afterward. Plenty of teams wanted him before the injury, and the Dodgers were looking to eat money and dump him only after that.

Some teams wanted him after his showcase and based on who he was in Cuba. There weren't teams busting down the Dodgers' door midseason.

It's possible the injuries screwed him up but I seriously, seriously doubt it. It's not like he shattered a leg or tore up a shoulder. He strained a hamstring.

I just find it too much of a stretch to believe that Olivera was a good player who was dominating and impressing and then had his career derailed by a run of the mill hamstring strain. I can't buy into that based on 31 PAs at AAA (I discount his hitting below AAA as there are plenty of hitters out there who are average at AAA, can't hit a lick in the majors, but can dominate at AA and below).

 

[smootness]

Some teams wanted him after his showcase and based on who he was in Cuba. There weren't teams busting down the Dodgers' door midseason.

It's possible the injuries screwed him up but I seriously, seriously doubt it. It's not like he shattered a leg or tore up a shoulder. He strained a hamstring.

I just find it too much of a stretch to believe that Olivera was a good player who was dominating and impressing and then had his career derailed by a run of the mill hamstring strain. I can't buy into that based on 31 PAs at AAA (I discount his hitting below AAA as there are plenty of hitters out there who are average at AAA, can't hit a lick in the majors, but can dominate at AA and below).

Oh, I don't think he was ever dominating. I do think we allowed our past scouting of him to cloud our vision. But he did hit considerably worse even in the minors after the trade than before. Yes, it was obviously a small sample, but he hit well at each of the levels in a small sample. So we probably knew what he had been, saw he was having success, and reasoned away all of the concerns.

It was a bad deal, no doubt about it. I just hated it even more at the time it was made (even when I assumed Olivera would at least provide some value) than I do now. I valued Wood and Peraza more than I should have.

 

[Enscheff]

It was evident the moment he stepped foot in camp that he couldn't play 3B. Tne rumors about him changing positions began almost immediately.

So you tell me, how did they so quickly discover he couldn't play 3B if they had been watching him play 3B at all prior to that? Or is it your contention that a single injury alone ruined his ability to play 3B?

I am willing to bet they hadn't seen him play any amount of defense in person for years. If they had, they would have known he couldn't play 3B. The Dodgers knew, so they unloaded to a team that didn't know.

This information gap on prospects is pretty common, and this time it cost the Braves.

 

[smootness]

It was evident the moment he stepped foot in camp that he couldn't play 3B. Tne rumors about him changing positions began almost immediately.

So you tell me, how did they so quickly discover he couldn't play 3B if they had been watching him play 3B at all prior to that? Or is it your contention that a single injury alone ruined his ability to play 3B?

I am willing to bet they hadn't seen him play any amount of defense in person for years. If they had, they would have known he couldn't play 3B. The Dodgers knew, so they unloaded to a team that didn't know.

This information gap on prospects is pretty common, and this time it cost the Braves.

It's certainly possible they hadn't seen him in person in the 13 games he played 3B for the Dodgers, I'm not saying that. But his inability to play 3B is not what made him a failure. It was his inability to hit, which may or may not have been clearly evident.

Again, it was a bad deal, and I am sure the Braves' vision was clouded to some degree by the prior scouting we'd done on him. After all, the scouting done prior to him signing with the Dodgers was all based on stuff from a couple years prior. So that's most of what they had to go on, and they made a mistake. Luckily, it didn't cost us much in hindsight.

 

[Southcack77]

Some teams wanted him after his showcase and based on who he was in Cuba. There weren't teams busting down the Dodgers' door midseason.

It's possible the injuries screwed him up but I seriously, seriously doubt it. It's not like he shattered a leg or tore up a shoulder. He strained a hamstring.

I just find it too much of a stretch to believe that Olivera was a good player who was dominating and impressing and then had his career derailed by a run of the mill hamstring strain. I can't buy into that based on 31 PAs at AAA (I discount his hitting below AAA as there are plenty of hitters out there who are average at AAA, can't hit a lick in the majors, but can dominate at AA and below).

Baseball America would not have rated him a top prospect based on word of mouth from the organization that acquired him.

I think Oliveira probably was a pretty well known commodity in Cuba who was coming off a lot of injuries. I also think the fact that he struck it rich might have amplified personality traits that made him less desirable than his talent level.

I got the impression the Braves were as frustrated with his attitude and personality and off the field behavior as much as anything.