Race

Uh oh

Chauvin may have had his knee on Floyd’s shoulder blade. My word if that ends up being confirmed. What a disaster.
 
Uh oh

Chauvin may have had his knee on Floyd’s shoulder blade. My word if that ends up being confirmed. What a disaster.
 
Fwiw, there aren't many lawyers in my firm who expect a conviction. There are a lot of lawyers at my firm planning to stay away from cities in the coming weeks.
 
nsacpi said:
I would be very surprised if he were not convicted.
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Has to be unanimous. Considering the levels of fentanyl in his system, it's hard to expect every juror to decide that there isn't at least reasonable doubt that a drug overdose caused his death.

Probable isn't enough. There can't be any reasonable doubt.
 
striker42 said:
Has to be unanimous. Considering the levels of fentanyl in his system, it's hard to expect every juror to decide that there isn't at least reasonable doubt that a drug overdose caused his death.

Probable isn't enough. There can't be any reasonable doubt.
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Cops are trained to recognize the symptoms of an opioid overdose. They carry naxolone to treat it. They didn't see the symptoms. They speculated about other things. Excited delirium. But Floyd didn't exhibit symptoms of an opioid overdose. People don't die of an opioid overdose without displaying those symptoms.

Chauvin also showed a certain amount of depraved indifference by keeping the knee on his neck for a couple minutes after Floyd stopped moving or speaking. Even after one of his partners informed him there was no pulse. His whole demeanor and body language was very bad.
 
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nsacpi said:
yeah, i think he will be convicted of one of the murder charges
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He might be. Juries can be unpredictable.I don't consider it likely and if I'm on the jury I can't say that overdose has been eliminated as a cause of death beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
nsacpi said:
Cops are trained to recognize the symptoms of an opioid overdose. They carry naxolone to treat it. They didn't see the symptoms. They speculated about other things. Excited delirium. But Floyd didn't exhibit symptoms of an opioid overdose. People don't die of an opioid overdose without displaying those symptoms.
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Cops aren’t doctors. Just Because someone is trained for something for four hours, doesn’t make them experts. There have been numerous reports of bloodshot eyes, drooling, looking high etc
 
nsacpi said:
Cops are trained to recognize the symptoms of an opioid overdose. They carry naxolone to treat it. They didn't see the symptoms. They speculated about other things. Excited delirium. But Floyd didn't exhibit symptoms of an opioid overdose. People don't die of an opioid overdose without displaying those symptoms.
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His level of fentanyl was a level that is very possibly lethal. Its not a level that's universally lethal but overdose has been listed as a cause of death in other cases at much lower level.

I think the ME even said that if Floyd was found dead in his home with those levels it would be listed as an overdose.

The other things you listed make it likely that the drugs weren't the cause or at least weren't the only cause but likely isn't enough. It has to be beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
striker42 said:
His level of fentanyl was a level that is very possibly lethal. Its not a level that's universally lethal but overdose has been listed as a cause of death in other cases at much lower level.

I think the ME even said that if Floyd was found dead in his home with those levels it would be listed as an overdose.

The other things you listed make it likely that the drugs weren't the cause or at least weren't the only cause but likely isn't enough. It has to be beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Except Floyd didn't die on his sofa at home. We have film footage to establish whether he exhibited the symptoms that accompany an opioid overdose.

Consider two scenarios. Two old ladies are found dead at their homes. Both died of the same cause. But only one had video of a nephew suffocating her. Those two trials go very different ways.
 
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Krgrecw said:
Cops aren’t doctors. Just Because someone is trained for something for four hours, doesn’t make them experts. There have been numerous reports of bloodshot eyes, drooling, looking high etc
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The symptoms of someone ODing on opioids are not subtle.
 
Krgrecw said:
Do you think the drugs could have at least potentially played at least .01% in his death?
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I would say not everyone who is given the Chauvin treatment will die. Just like not everyone I shoot in the head will die. The ones who are weak and old and have bad tickers are more likely to die. But I don't think my chances before a jury would be very good if I tried that argument. Especially if there was video of me smirking while I shot my victim.
 
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nsacpi said:
Except Floyd didn't die on his sofa at home. We have film footage to establish whether he exhibited the symptoms that accompany an opioid overdose.

Consider two scenarios. Two old ladies are found dead at their homes. Both died of the same cause. But only one had video of a nephew suffocating her. Those two trials go very different ways.
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The problem with your analogy is there's no other possible cause of death for the old lady than smothering.

A better example would be a car wrecks and the driver is killed. The driver has injuries that would be fatal but he also has evidence of a heart attack that was potentially fatal.

Did the guy die of a heart attack? Did he die from the wreck? Did the heart attack cause the wreck?

Even if you have evidence of the driver being slumped over at the wheel before the wreck you can't conclusively say he was dead before he wrecked.

The difference between likely and beyond a reasonable doubt is big.
 
striker42 said:
The problem with your analogy is there's no other possible cause of death for the old lady than smothering.
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Lots of things can cause cardiac arrest. Without video they can't be ruled out.

The video in the Chauvin case makes an enormous difference. We can see what happened. And I think it is telling that people who watched it in person felt they were watching a man being killed. They became more agitated over time. There is a woman who worked for the Minneapolis police who testified that what she saw on her monitor was so unusual that she called the sergeant about it. Someone else called 911 to report what they saw.

Btw Chauvin was willing to plead guilty to 3rd degree murder and accept a sentence of over 10 years. That's what he thinks of his chances.
 
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