Rank The Presidents...

DirkPiggler said:
FDR deserves his ranking. However, bringing the U.S. out of the Great Depression had a whole lot more to do with the production required to fight a World War on two fronts than it did on the New Deal programs. The people that tout the New Deal as an example of the success of Keynesian economics leave out that very important fact.

Like you said though, it's not fair to hold FDR responsible for the generations who bastardized his work. He set up his programs to incentivize work, unlike the current programs brought on by the Great Society which kill the work ethic of many recipients of aid.
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Without a doubt, FDR deserves his spot on this list. If you live in rural areas, and you enjoy infrastructure like public power, paved roads, telephones, and flood control (dams) then you can thank FDR.
 
Carp said:
Not sure how Washington can ever be too high. He should be either 1 or 2 on everybody's list. The guy friggin declined a second term till we begged him. And then absolutely refused to do a 3rd term, despite overwhelming support.
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Washington is super high cause basically he invented the president. I put FDR and Lincoln over him personally, and probably Jefferson as well. But he certainly deserves to be in the mix at the top. Just depends what you consider to be most important. To me Civil War, WWII, and Louisiana purchase were 3 of the biggest most important events in American history.
 
Washington guided the country through it's infancy state, which cannot be over looked. He established the Presidential Cabinet. Established the US Navy. Signed the Judicial Act into law. Established foreign relations with England and Spain. Ended the Northwest Indian War.
 
A pretty fair list overall.

I think Lincoln and FDR deserve a tremendous amount of credit for the circumstances they were dealing with.

Eisenhower is the last really strong president we've had.
 
Carp said:
Washington guided the country through it's infancy state, which cannot be over looked. He established the Presidential Cabinet. Established the US Navy. Signed the Judicial Act into law. Established foreign relations with England and Spain. Ended the Northwest Indian War.
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Washington was great, him putting down the Whiskey Rebellion was great as well. I'm just saying that others can be put into play.

Essentially you have a top 4, Lincoln, Washington, FDR, and Jefferson, then you build from there. You can almost lock Teddy into 5 but you hit Wilson, Eisenhower, Truman, etc. who can beat him depending on what you value.
 
I was watching the Last Days in Vietnam special on PBS the other night (highly, highly recommend) and was reminded of how incredibly solid Richard Nixon was as a leader.

Steady domestic agenda, and I think the best (or, depending on your perspective, most aggressive) foreign policy of any President in the 20th century.

It's a shame that Watergate tarnished his legacy as much as it did, although the level of stank there pretty much speaks for itself.

I don't think I ever realized the full extent that the United States did a 360 on Vietnam, basically abandoning the South Vietnamese and leaving Saigon to fall. I get that the populace was utterly sick of Vietnam, but wow, what a retreat ... and, ultimately, defeat. It's eerily astonishing how current events seem to mirror our history.

Apparently the North Vietnamese thought Nixon was a "mad man" (and I quote) and literally waited until the day he resigned before launching the offensive which saw them retake the country. They were that afraid of him (cough).
 
I really avoid these lists. They all faced challenges when they assumed the office and undoubtedly some embraced those challenges better than others. But they were all dealt a hand not of their choosing.

Hawk, I get what you're saying about Nixon. He was arguably the last liberal president we've had in terms of domestic policy. People decry Johnson for the war on poverty, but Nixon inflated a lot of those programs (which Reagan subsequently dismantled through block grants). But the North Vietnamese were right to fear Nixon. It's pretty obvious he was nuts.

I think Lincoln deserves much of the acclaim and high rankings he's accorded, but I somehow still think in all the plaudits, he is overrated. He was an enigma of sorts, which allows thinkers of any stripe to adopt him as one of their own. That has created this wild hagiography which has vaulted him into demigod status.
 
Hawk said:
how incredibly solid Richard Nixon was as a leader.

Steady domestic agenda, and I think the best (or, depending on your perspective, most aggressive) foreign policy of any President in the 20th century.

It's a shame that Watergate tarnished his legacy as much as it did, although the level of stank there pretty much speaks for itself.
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50PoundHead said:
Hawk, I get what you're saying about Nixon. He was arguably the last liberal president we've had in terms of domestic policy. People decry Johnson for the war on poverty, but Nixon inflated a lot of those programs (which Reagan subsequently dismantled through block grants). But the North Vietnamese were right to fear Nixon. It's pretty obvious he was nuts.
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Nixon's long been one of my favorite US Presidents—perhaps because I like complications and weird underdogs, but mostly because I respect the hell out of his foreign-policy posture and decision-making; I likewise think he often did a lot of right-minded things on the domestic side, even if those policies didn't actually reflect what was in his mind (for instance: he policies with respect to race-relations were a lot better than his actual feelings on race). It's weird but apt to say he's both unfortunately and entirely understandably very underrated by history.
 
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