REAL FOOTBALL Thread

gilesfan said:
They have one of the worst offenses from a team competing in the super bowl in history. If he's getting them "in the right play call," why is it they aren't doing well in their plays? He's missing wide open guys all day long. They had 244 yards total vs. the Patriots on 62 plays. THey had 324 yards on 70 plays vs. the Steelers. People gave Trent Dilfer all types of **** for what he did for the Ravens, he at least moved the ball through the air when given the chance.
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I don't disagree with any of this. And I'm also not one of those who think Dilfer sucked and had no business winning a Super Bowl. Dilfer obviously is not a great QB, and that defense is obviously the primary reason they won that Super Bowl. But they also needed a QB to do exactly what Dilfer did...move the ball, run the clock, don't turn it over, put up enough points.

There are some QBs, even some better than Dilfer, that would not have been as good a fit for that team as he was.

I don't care about trying to determine for good who is better between Brady and Manning. Discussions like that are stupid. Manning's passer rating was over 90 on Sunday. His completion percentage wasn't great and his yards per attempt was low, and yes, he did miss some passes. But he still played well overall and did what Denver needed him to do. Brady didn't do what New England needed him to do.

And I realize Denver's defense is better than New England's and it's not really fair to compare them that simply...but it also hasn't been fair to say Brady is better simply because he has 4 rings and Manning has lost too often in the playoffs. They're both all-time great QBs. Neither played great on Sunday, but based on the numbers Manning played better and Denver won. If we want to compare only the QBs as we have in the past, which is dumb, then Manning is better. The reality is simply that Denver, with Manning, is better than New England with Brady.
 
smootness said:
I don't disagree with any of this. And I'm also not one of those who think Dilfer sucked and had no business winning a Super Bowl. Dilfer obviously is not a great QB, and that defense is obviously the primary reason they won that Super Bowl. But they also needed a QB to do exactly what Dilfer did...move the ball, run the clock, don't turn it over, put up enough points.

There are some QBs, even some better than Dilfer, that would not have been as good a fit for that team as he was.

I don't care about trying to determine for good who is better between Brady and Manning. Discussions like that are stupid. Manning's passer rating was over 90 on Sunday. His completion percentage wasn't great and his yards per attempt was low, and yes, he did miss some passes. But he still played well overall and did what Denver needed him to do. Brady didn't do what New England needed him to do.

And I realize Denver's defense is better than New England's and it's not really fair to compare them that simply...but it also hasn't been fair to say Brady is better simply because he has 4 rings and Manning has lost too often in the playoffs. They're both all-time great QBs. Neither played great on Sunday, but based on the numbers Manning played better and Denver won. If we want to compare only the QBs as we have in the past, which is dumb, then Manning is better. The reality is simply that Denver, with Manning, is better than New England with Brady.
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Oh, Im not saying either played better. Both of them were awful. Brady had more of an uphill climb with a lesser receiving core and facing the best defense in the NFL. Both are great QBs. Brady was more successful and actually performed well in the playoffs, whereas Manning has not.

That ok though, bc it took Peyton leaving for Tenn to win a Natty..:Gasp:
 
gilesfan said:
Oh, Im not saying either played better. Both of them were awful. Brady had more of an uphill climb with a lesser receiving core and facing the best defense in the NFL. Both are great QBs. Brady was more successful and actually performed well in the playoffs, whereas Manning has not.

That ok though, bc it took Peyton leaving for Tenn to win a Natty..:Gasp:
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You know Manning now has a winning record vs. Brady in the playoffs, including 3-1 against him in the AFC Championship? Also, Manning has now made Super Bowls for 2 different teams (both twice) and 4 different head coaches. I could argue that's more impressive than Brady winning 4 Super Bowls for the same team/coach.

Again, I don't really care to determine who is better. But I can't stand when people act like Brady's wins are all due to him while his losses are due to other factors. Manning has almost certainly had to do more for his teams more often than Brady has. Once NE stopped being a defensive juggernaut and Brady had to step up and throw the ball a bunch, he has the same one Super Bowl and a bunch of playoff losses than Manning has.
 
Meanwhile:

cam-newton-superman-hs1.jpg
 
smootness said:
You know Manning now has a winning record vs. Brady in the playoffs, including 3-1 against him in the AFC Championship? Also, Manning has now made Super Bowls for 2 different teams (both twice) and 4 different head coaches. I could argue that's more impressive than Brady winning 4 Super Bowls for the same team/coach.

Again, I don't really care to determine who is better. But I can't stand when people act like Brady's wins are all due to him while his losses are due to other factors. Manning has almost certainly had to do more for his teams more often than Brady has. Once NE stopped being a defensive juggernaut and Brady had to step up and throw the ball a bunch, he has the same one Super Bowl and a bunch of playoff losses than Manning has.
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He's been to two more Super Bowls and in both he was a fluke play away from winning.

Hilarious that you're trying to marginalize Brady's contributions as a QB. He's a top 3 QB of all-time, and you can argue that he tops the list.
 
CyYoung31 said:
He's been to two more Super Bowls and in both he was a fluke play away from winning.

Hilarious that you're trying to marginalize Brady's contributions as a QB. He's a top 3 QB of all-time, and you can argue that he tops the list.
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I'm actually not trying to marginalize Brady at all. He's an all-time great and on the short list of best QBs of all-time. No doubt. There are plenty of people who think he's the best ever, and I have no strong rebuttal against that.

My point is that the excuses given for Brady's recent record against Manning in the playoffs are the exact same excuses made for Manning earlier that Brady fans shot down. My point is also that you can find numbers to support pretty much any way you want to go...which tells me they're both all-time greats and trying to figure out which one is better is asinine. Tom Brady is an all-time great QB, one of the best ever. Peyton Manning is an all-time great QB, one of the best ever. Why sports fans can't just let that be it will never cease to amaze me.

The post you quoted was in direct response to a claim that Brady has performed well in the playoffs and Manning hasn't. Tom Brady fanboys are annoying.
 
smootness said:
I'm actually not trying to marginalize Brady at all. He's an all-time great and on the short list of best QBs of all-time. No doubt. There are plenty of people who think he's the best ever, and I have no strong rebuttal against that.

My point is that the excuses given for Brady's recent record against Manning in the playoffs are the exact same excuses made for Manning earlier that Brady fans shot down. My point is also that you can find numbers to support pretty much any way you want to go...which tells me they're both all-time greats and trying to figure out which one is better is asinine. Tom Brady is an all-time great QB, one of the best ever. Peyton Manning is an all-time great QB, one of the best ever. Why sports fans can't just let that be it will never cease to amaze me.

The post you quoted was in direct response to a claim that Brady has performed well in the playoffs and Manning hasn't. Tom Brady fanboys are annoying.
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Brady vs Manning doesn't exist. They don't actually play against one another. Tom Brady plays against the Broncos\Colts Defense, and Manning plays against the Pats Defense.

Brady is awesome, perhaps tops of all time...his record VS anyone shouldn't really matter. Manning too for that matter...
 
Tapate50 said:
Brady vs Manning doesn't exist. They don't actually play against one another. Tom Brady plays against the Broncos\Colts Defense, and Manning plays against the Pats Defense.

Brady is awesome, perhaps tops of all time...his record VS anyone shouldn't really matter. Manning too for that matter...
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This is my point.
 
Tapate50 said:
Brady vs Manning doesn't exist. They don't actually play against one another. Tom Brady plays against the Broncos\Colts Defense, and Manning plays against the Pats Defense.

Brady is awesome, perhaps tops of all time...his record VS anyone shouldn't really matter. Manning too for that matter...
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It's really beyond me how so many people, especially in the sports media, either fail to recognize this or blatantly exploit it for ratings and talk.

It's not quite as dumb as the LeBron v. Jordan debate, but it's in the ball park.

Also, it never mattered to a lot of people in the past when Peyton had a **** defense and still lost a good bit in the playoffs. But now that he's at the end of his career and gone downhill, but going to play in one more Super Bowl, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE DEFENSEEEEEE.

These same people will call Peyton a choker one more time, no matter his stats, if and when the Broncos lose to a team whose QB came into his own this year and is at the top of the league, and that has a dominant defense.
 
I like the comments about small sample size lol. These people miss the point the league completely ignored evidence and shielded it from players to protect their precious profits.
 
BedellBrave said:
Tomorrow evening is really going to be rough on either all of you or me. See you then. :-)
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Panthers are gonna win for 3 reasons.

1. Their defense will manhandle the Broncos. Peyton will be on his ass and scared all day.

2. Their offense will do enough. The X factor here is Cam. If he starts turnign the ball over, Denver will win. If he holds the ball and moves it they'll win extremely comfortably.

3. It would be fitting for everyone but the Falcons in the NFC South to have a Super Bowl.

And the cherry on top would be the Falcons would be the team who stopped Carolina from going perfect.
 
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