REAL FOOTBALL Thread

zitothebrave said:
I wouldn't like to bet on that myself. We've been burned hard with the physically gifted QB once before. Our best years as a franchise happened with a boring pocket passer who just put up 4000 yard seasons one after another (infact his current streak is 10)
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True. But it also resulted in 0 Super Bowl wins.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Adam Schefter confirms this is Brees's last season. Every game now could be his last. It's going to be an absolute shame if he doesnt get a full crowd for his last game. I seriously might cry when it's over. Imo he is the goat. The Saints were a Browns level dumpster fire before him.
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One of the very best to ever do it. He has my utmost respect. I’d put him with Manning and Brady
 
zitothebrave said:
Saints won the division the last 2 years without a perfectly healthy Brees.

Brees is great. But let's not pretend he's Peyton Manning. He was blessed with a great HC and GM. 2 of the best in the game.

Your number 1 in each is Belichick. Then Loomis and Payton are right there. You can argue a few here or there (I like Veach a lot, and Reid is an amazing coach) but it's arguing. If it wasn't for BB they'd be in the discussion as number 1 of each spot.
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I am a huge Manning fan for obvious reasons and would probably agree with you about Peyton. Peyton did have teo HoF receivers for most of his career and Brees never had a Pro Bowl receiver until he was 40. Peyton had much better defenses throughout his career. Even the best defense the Saints have had in recent years iant close to as good as what Peyton had in Denver. I would also take issue with characterizing Brees as having the second best HC and GM. 06-09 and 17-current I would agree but between that was some seriously incompetent **** by HC and GM. I was on here ranting about wanting Payton fired for years. Payton is a genius when it comes to offense but he was seriously costing the team 2-3 wins a year for years because his situational management of late games was some of the dumbest **** I have ever seen. For example punting the ball down 6 with 2 minutes to go when you have a historically bad defense instead of going for a 4th and short on the 50 yard line with an elite offense. Spoiler warning, it never worked. Not once. Not. Even. Once. He did this for 8 years and I **** you not ot failed every time until a late season Steelers game in 2017.




But anyways, I could agree Peyton was better, but I think Brees is better than Brady.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I am a huge Manning fan for obvious reasons and would probably agree with you about Peyton. Peyton did have teo HoF receivers for most of his career and Brees never had a Pro Bowl receiver until he was 40. Peyton had much better defenses throughout his career. Even the best defense the Saints have had in recent years iant close to as good as what Peyton had in Denver. I would also take issue with characterizing Brees as having the second best HC and GM. 06-09 and 17-current I would agree but between that was some seriously incompetent **** by HC and GM. I was on here ranting about wanting Payton fired for years. Payton is a genius when it comes to offense but he was seriously costing the team 2-3 wins a year for years because his situational management of late games was some of the dumbest **** I have ever seen. For example punting the ball down 6 with 2 minutes to go when you have a historically bad defense instead of going for a 4th and short on the 50 yard line with an elite offense. Spoiler warning, it never worked. Not once. Not. Even. Once. He did this for 8 years and I **** you not ot failed every time until a late season Steelers game in 2017.




But anyways, I could agree Peyton was better, but I think Brees is better than Brady.
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I mean it's hard to compare.

Reggie Wayne spent his whole career with Peyton. His post Peyton numbers he had one good year, and it's not like Luck was a bum. Harrison obviously was great but he didn't break 1000 yards until he was 26.

Comparing Brady and anyone is hard. Brady was won so much. We won't know his real place unless Belichick never wins again.
 
Tapate50 said:
QBs can make Wrs, not the other way around
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Not 100% true. Freaks like Randy Moss and Megatron can make QBs. Especially Moss. But those levels of WR are few and far between, not the norm, and not guys like Harrison and Wayne. Nor any of the WRs Brees has had. Or Brady.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I can only imagine the carnage the Saints offense would have left in its wake if prime Brees had Randy Moss for a deep threat.
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I mean can you imagine if Peyton had Randy Moss? I know it would be almost impossible as they were the same draft. But if the Colts traded up and took Moss. He would have a few more rings.
 
I dont really know much about the offense Peyton ran. I do however know how important having that over the top deep threat is to Sean Paytons offense. Forcing those safeties to play deep makes the run and short game all that more effective.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I dont really know much about the offense Peyton ran. I do however know how important having that over the top deep threat is to Sean Paytons offense. Forcing those safeties to play deep makes the run and short game all that more effective.
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Peyton's offense was all over the place. He made the use of the talent he had. Actually who I think he would have loved except for his stone hands is TO. Owens ability to run tight routes and ability to make huge plays after the catch would have been top notch for Peyton.
 
zitothebrave said:
Not 100% true. Freaks like Randy Moss and Megatron can make QBs. Especially Moss. But those levels of WR are few and far between, not the norm, and not guys like Harrison and Wayne. Nor any of the WRs Brees has had. Or Brady.
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Well Brady did have Moss for a bit. And 2007 was his best season by far with Moss out there.
 
zitothebrave said:
Not 100% true. Freaks like Randy Moss and Megatron can make QBs. Especially Moss. But those levels of WR are few and far between, not the norm, and not guys like Harrison and Wayne. Nor any of the WRs Brees has had. Or Brady.
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Pretty damn close to 100%.

As close as you get in the NFL.

There are freak exceptions, but for the most part- the guys that can fit it in a small window can make the WR.
 
Tapate50 said:
Pretty damn close to 100%.

As close as you get in the NFL.

There are freak exceptions, but for the most part- the guys that can fit it in a small window can make the WR.
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Yep. I mean elite WRs are likely to be elite wherever they go, but it's unlikely to greatly affect the overall stats of the QB, aside from the exceptions like TO, Moss, or Megatron.

But there are more mediocre WRs that get made into elite WRs by their QB, than there are Mediocre QBs that get made into elite QBs by their WRs. In fact, the only examples of the latter I can think of are may be Culpepper and Jeff Garcia.
 
I don't disagree that typically the WR is made by the QB. But there is a tiny bit of give and take as well.

For example, Julio would be a great WR without Ryan, he just wouldn't be the best in the league. I would comp it to Larry Fitzgerald. He could have maybe been the best WR in the game with his insane hands, route running, etc. He never broke the 1500 yard barrier, he never broke the 15 TD barrier, and that was because of his QBs.

I actually think the right way to do it is like the Saints and Pats have done. Instead of having a star like Julio or Moss. Having a bunch of quality and serviceable guys.
 
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