Religious Right in Arizona Cheer bill that allows them to not act like Jesus would...

goldfly said:
one of the most insane conversations i have when i am out of the country is trying to explain the right wing in this country to people

people in Australia REALLY didn't understand it

i am asked all the time how a group that says they are Christian (predominantly in the eyes of people outside the country) can support the death penalty, be on the side of big business, not be on the side of the workers and the poor, be pro gun, pro war, against welfare and helping kids that are born into poverty and think locking up drug users is the way to go. for starter topics of the conversations i have had
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It's god's will and the path Jesus put us on for glory.
 
goldfly said:
i don't think a church should be forced to marry someone

a church i went to as a kid wouldn't marry my sister and her husband cause they lived together before marriage.
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And that is terrible. I can understand your resentment.

I think Catholics are like that, but they didn't say anything to my wife and I. Also we did not marry in the church either because of that, but we did something better than the church ever would...got married in Jamaica in a secluded location.
 
goldfly said:
i am asked all the time how a group that says they are Christian (predominantly in the eyes of people outside the country) can support the death penalty, be on the side of big business, not be on the side of the workers and the poor, be pro gun, pro war, against welfare and helping kids that are born into poverty and think locking up drug users is the way to go. for starter topics of the conversations i have had
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Just curious, speaking as someone who would probably be among the last in line to be considered as a role model (by myself or most of the Christian community) how many of these things would you guesstimate I would be found guilty of?
 
AerchAngel said:
And that is terrible. I can understand your resentment.

I think Catholics are like that, but they didn't say anything to my wife and I. Also we did not marry in the church either because of that, but we did something better than the church ever would...got married in Jamaica in a secluded location.
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Why is it terrible? Why does a couple shacking-up want a church wedding? If they were professing Christians, and the Christian ethic holds that sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and if Christians are making holy vows before God, then why is it terrible for a minister or church to say, "hey, your lifestyle isn't matching your profession in this very public way, we really want you to be married, but we want you to repent and take these vows seriously. Stop engaging in premarital sex, don't live together (if possible) and then let's get you married."

A part of the reason the church has so little credibility in this matter of same-sex marriage is because it has winked at shacking-up and no-fault divorce.

We are all sinners - but we (professing Christians) are to be sinners that are seeking to repent of our sins and trust Christ even when his teaching seems counter to what we want.
 
"…I am being descriptive here, rather than self-pitying. Christians had plenty of opportunities — thousands of years’ worth — to treat gay people with real charity, and far too often chose intolerance. (And still do, in many instances and places.) So being marginalized, being sued, losing tax-exempt status — this will be uncomfortable, but we should keep perspective and remember our sins, and nobody should call it persecution.

But it’s still important for the winning side to recognize its power. We are not really having an argument about same-sex marriage anymore, and on the evidence of Arizona, we’re not having a negotiation. Instead, all that’s left is the timing of the final victory — and for the defeated to find out what settlement the victors will impose."
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Eww, I'll bet that was really tough, huh? LOL
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After 7 years we still talk about it. I want to go back, but with kids now it is difficult and if we take the kids with us, the wife will not let them out of her eyesight, so it would not be fun at all.
 
BedellBrave said:
Why is it terrible? Why does a couple shacking-up want a church wedding? If they were professing Christians, and the Christian ethic holds that sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and if Christians are making holy vows before God, then why is it terrible for a minister or church to say, "hey, your lifestyle isn't matching your profession in this very public way, we really want you to be married, but we want you to repent and take these vows seriously. Stop engaging in premarital sex, don't live together (if possible) and then let's get you married."

A part of the reason the church has so little credibility in this matter of same-sex marriage is because it has winked at shacking-up and no-fault divorce.

We are all sinners - but we (professing Christians) are to be sinners that are seeking to repent of our sins and trust Christ even when his teaching seems counter to what we want.
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I could be wrong but I think by shacking up AA was talking about living together not necessarily knowing each other in a Genesis kind of way.

That said, I agree with you. If your values don't mesh with your churches then don't expect their approval, I'd honestly go elsewhere.

An example I can give, my girlfriend's grandfather was a member of a church for years and years. They had a member who was transgendered and the pastor was very judgy of that person and he left. Despite being a member for an obscenely long time.
 
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