Remember Obama Girl?

I guess my time in Montana has jaded my thinking, LOL. There's a reason why I'm OKLAHOMA Hawk, I live in far SE Oklahoma and work in SW Arkansas. I Know it isn't Mobile but it ain't exactly Boston or San Francisco either. Oh and the comment about the negative feelings towards entitlements actually prove MY point. People down here are more brainwashed than the Germans people were when Goebbels told them what to think. Of course they're told how bad welfare, etc., are but think about who's telling them that, the people who are on the payroll of those receiving 8 and 9 figures of corporate welfare every year in addition to record profits, of course they want you looking at what's going on with their left hands, that way you don't see them picking your pocket with their right hand.

I'll tell you what, you start punishing those greedy bastards who making billions every year but who are sending American jobs overseas so that they can squeeze out a few more millions to a point where they start employing Americans, paying them a living wage (no not A-Rod money, just a real living wage) and I'll be 100% in favor of cutting the welfare rolls of all but the most extreme, very legitimate cases.

Deal???

My father used to work for one of the largest supermarket chains in operation down here. They did more business annually in EBT than they did in any other medium. That's problematic to me and indicative of a problem that's much more widespread than many realize. It ain't any sort of 'brainwashing' (although I can imagine that's a convenient excuse) ... it's a harsh reality.

Also, I can't help you if you consider Oklahoma part of the South. :tasty:

I'm surprised SAV isn't more up in arms over the realities of entitlement programs, Savannah is pretty sketchy nowadays. I felt more comfortable in Mumbai.
 
My father used to work for one of the largest supermarket chains in operation down here. They did more business annually in EBT than they did in any other medium. That's problematic to me and indicative of a problem that's much more widespread than many realize. It ain't any sort of 'brainwashing' (although I can imagine that's a convenient excuse) ... it's a harsh reality.

Also, I can't help you if you consider Oklahoma part of the South. :tasty:

I'm surprised SAV isn't more up in arms over the realities of entitlement programs, Savannah is pretty sketchy nowadays. I felt more comfortable in Mumbai.

Savannah is booming. IMO the fastest developing city in Georgia not named Atlanta. Our metro pop isn't even that big but businesses and national chains are finally coming here. On track to his another tourism high. The problem with Savannah is the lack of major transportation options. They JUST finished a parkway that took over 60 years. It was delayed almost a decade because there was a bald eagle's nest found in the 90's, and then they couldn't finish the final phase until they received stimulus 2009 funding.

I do get annoyed at entitlement program abuse. My dad never took welfare, worked for 29 years before he lost his job in the recession, and when he was laid off he tried to get food stamps temporarily and the most they'd give him monthly was like $12. He was cussing out the people in the office, because he saw all of these fatherless kids with young black mothers getting hundreds a month. I had to forego going to college (Ga Tech) to stay and work and help my parents get by. Unemployment only lasted so long for my folks, luckily they now get partial social security.

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The conundrum on things like food stamps is, the kids are the ones the money is for but the mom or dad use it stupidly usually.

I'm all for reforming it to try and stop abuse. Don't agree with drug testing, waste of money. Make punishments for welfare fraud/abuse extremely high, and it will help deter people from doing it.
 
My father used to work for one of the largest supermarket chains in operation down here. They did more business annually in EBT than they did in any other medium. That's problematic to me and indicative of a problem that's much more widespread than many realize. It ain't any sort of 'brainwashing' (although I can imagine that's a convenient excuse) ... it's a harsh reality.

OK, explain this part to me and what it has to do with what I posted earlier and I suppose we can go from there.

Oh and sorry I'm not southern enough for you. You should see people from northern OK, many of them are full on Yankees, voice tone, behavior, etc.
 
I saw that Kings of Leon documentary (Oklahoma). They seemed like they'd fit right in with us southerners.

They're from TN, right? I don't know that much about them, but I'd be willing to give them a shot, I don't know what this country is coming to, first Obama wasn't black enough for some people, now I'm not southern enough for some people. ;)

Add to this, the fact that nobody even addressed my wishes that Obamagirl's tube top also be an Obama related shirt, requiring the same action from her as she put forth for her first Obama shirt.
 
OK, explain this part to me and what it has to do with what I posted earlier and I suppose we can go from there.

Um, you contended that people who believe welfare is ineffective and resource-sucking were brainwashed.

I countered with an example based out of reality.

What am I missing?
 
The thing is, if poor people see rich people get away with theft and not have to serve time in jail (like the Du Pont case), then why should they feel any worse about cheating the system?

If money can buy your way out from serving hard time, then I have no question that some people will take the risk of abusing welfare.
 
The thing is, if poor people see rich people get away with theft and not have to serve time in jail (like the Du Pont case), then why should they feel any worse about cheating the system?

If money can buy your way out from serving hard time, then I have no question that some people will take the risk of abusing welfare.

It's weird. I don't see welfare as a rich v. poor thing -- at all. The wealthy do not fund the welfare system, the middle class does.
 
It's weird. I don't see welfare as a rich v. poor thing -- at all. The wealthy do not fund the welfare system, the middle class does.

Well yeah, because for some ungodly reason there's a cap on payroll taxes so payroll taxes have the bulk of their burden shifted on the middle class and working poor.

I still have never seen any rational justificaiton for payroll tax caps and capital gains limits being as low as they are.
 
Um, you contended that people who believe welfare is ineffective and resource-sucking were brainwashed.

I countered with an example based out of reality.

What am I missing?

Don't think I said that but that is a good and typical conservative argument, ignore all the parts of a long in depth statement, find one section you feel is vulnerable and make your whole response about that one part, ignoring the other 98%. I think I said something more along the lines of most people who rant on an on about regular welfare, snap, etc., cannot or will not see the role of the uber wealthy in making these programs necessary for so many, because typically regular social program haters, the sending of jobs overseas, the sucking of an ill advised amount of the nations wealth to themselves at the expense of the vast majority of Americans, and the very large amounts of corporate welfare given out to the Exxon Mobils, Monsantos, etc.,

I also think I said something along the lines of make those greedy bastards bring the American jobs back (and I mean the good paying jobs not the minimum wage crap) and I will be all in for a program that cuts more and more people from the social programs, eventually (and hopefully not all that eventually) getting the programs down to those who really cannot function on their own without government help.

OK, the next two step is in your court.
 
Well yeah, because for some ungodly reason there's a cap on payroll taxes so payroll taxes have the bulk of their burden shifted on the middle class and working poor.

I still have never seen any rational justificaiton for payroll tax caps and capital gains limits being as low as they are.

Zeet, any idea when these sweetheart deals for these "great Americans" started? I'm not sure and would like your input.
 
They're from TN, right? I don't know that much about them, but I'd be willing to give them a shot, I don't know what this country is coming to, first Obama wasn't black enough for some people, now I'm not southern enough for some people. ;)

Add to this, the fact that nobody even addressed my wishes that Obamagirl's tube top also be an Obama related shirt, requiring the same action from her as she put forth for her first Obama shirt.

Bounced around, but originally from Oklahoma. The documentary is mostly set with their family reunion in Talihina.
 
Don't think I said that but that is a good and typical conservative argument, ignore all the parts of a long in depth statement, find one section you feel is vulnerable and make your whole response about that one part, ignoring the other 98%. I think I said something more along the lines of most people who rant on an on about regular welfare, snap, etc., cannot or will not see the role of the uber wealthy in making these programs necessary for so many, because typically regular social program haters, the sending of jobs overseas, the sucking of an ill advised amount of the nations wealth to themselves at the expense of the vast majority of Americans, and the very large amounts of corporate welfare given out to the Exxon Mobils, Monsantos, etc.,

I also think I said something along the lines of make those greedy bastards bring the American jobs back (and I mean the good paying jobs not the minimum wage crap) and I will be all in for a program that cuts more and more people from the social programs, eventually (and hopefully not all that eventually) getting the programs down to those who really cannot function on their own without government help.

OK, the next two step is in your court.

I get what you are saying -- and by not responding to it doesn't mean that I don't believe it's not a problem. But I don't think clamping down on the wealthy will wholesale solve the problem ... however, for the sake of argument, let's do it ... aggressively ... tax the wealthy, redistribute, bring jobs back home etc. What do you expect to happen then? Are the people on benefits going to magically seek self-sustenance?

You assume that I am conservative because I disagree with you. Fact of the matter is that I align with whatever works. It's a happy place.
 
I get what you are saying -- and by not responding to it doesn't mean that I don't believe it's not a problem. But I don't think clamping down on the wealthy will wholesale solve the problem ... however, for the sake of argument, let's do it ... aggressively ... tax the wealthy, redistribute, bring jobs back home etc. What do you expect to happen then? Are the people on benefits going to magically seek self-sustenance?

You assume that I am conservative because I disagree with you. Fact of the matter is that I align with whatever works. It's a happy place.

Problem is the rich and corporations will try to extort or blackmail our government even more if we try to clamp down on them. Too big to fail.
 
Savannah is booming. IMO the fastest developing city in Georgia not named Atlanta. Our metro pop isn't even that big but businesses and national chains are finally coming here. On track to his another tourism high. The problem with Savannah is the lack of major transportation options. They JUST finished a parkway that took over 60 years. It was delayed almost a decade because there was a bald eagle's nest found in the 90's, and then they couldn't finish the final phase until they received stimulus 2009 funding.

I do get annoyed at entitlement program abuse. My dad never took welfare, worked for 29 years before he lost his job in the recession, and when he was laid off he tried to get food stamps temporarily and the most they'd give him monthly was like $12. He was cussing out the people in the office, because he saw all of these fatherless kids with young black mothers getting hundreds a month. I had to forego going to college (Ga Tech) to stay and work and help my parents get by. Unemployment only lasted so long for my folks, luckily they now get partial social security.

----

The conundrum on things like food stamps is, the kids are the ones the money is for but the mom or dad use it stupidly usually.

I'm all for reforming it to try and stop abuse. Don't agree with drug testing, waste of money. Make punishments for welfare fraud/abuse extremely high, and it will help deter people from doing it.

Way to man up and help out bro. You are a really good guy and you go out of your way to make things right.

I don't necessarily agree with every you say on here, well I don't agree with a lot of people, but real world problems need real world answers as we just got too many damn greedy people or on a flip side too many damn lazy people and the politicians use the two polarizing subjects for maximum effort of control.
 
I get what you are saying -- and by not responding to it doesn't mean that I don't believe it's not a problem. But I don't think clamping down on the wealthy will wholesale solve the problem ... however, for the sake of argument, let's do it ... aggressively ... tax the wealthy, redistribute, bring jobs back home etc. What do you expect to happen then? Are the people on benefits going to magically seek self-sustenance?

Well I do agree that it isn't just the wealthy who are going to have to change, after all we have created a culture of reliance on the government, and while I don't like that sort of thing (believe it or not) I firmly believe that right now it is an absolute necessity, unless you want to see millions starve and I'm you've already heard the usual Repub response (first started or at least publicized in the Summer of 1932, in the midst of the Great Depression) "there are plenty of jobs out there, people are just too lazy to go out and get one". Yes there are jobs out there now, some anyway, but minimum wage jobs mostly, can you live on one of them? And if Michelle Bachmann and others get their way that antichrist of a minimum wage will be struck down to hell where all opponents of the few having everything are sent.

Create the jobs first, then start phasing out the social programs and aggressively punish fraud for those who are cheating the system. As for punishing the poor rich people, and that being part of the solution, when one fairly small group of people have 90% of the wealth (and google it if you don't believe me) who in the hell else are you going to go after? I know weso for one thinks the economy will just "straighten out by itself" or something along those lines and I hope he's right, but I can't see that working. What will the wealthy do if we go after them to make changes??? That's easy, they'll bitch and moan like little girls, just like they do now, nothing will change except maybe the volume of it and maybe Rupert Murdoch or that Adelson ahole, oooh and hopefully the Koch brothers will implode or spontaneously combust, now THAT'S quality entertainment.

You ask about the consequences of going after the wealthy, and many agree with you, there are some here who really believe that taxing the top 5% or so at a higher rate than everybody else is a moral issue. You think that was just a randomly arrived at philosophy and that there was no Goebbels-esque work behind it??? What happens if we don't go after them? Well nothing good, after all whether you people will see it or not we ARE France in about 1786. We have a short time to start making things right or this whole country will start falling apart. I guess the private security business would be a good one to go into because the uber wealthy will have to hire people other than the pisspoorly paid police to guard them and their families when this happens.

Repubs (whether you are one or not) make themselves believe that the system and wealth distribution are so skewed because one group of people simply work harder than another, they cannot and/or will not realize or admit that the system is rigged, and has been rigged since the 1980's to favor those who have the most to get even more. If you don't believe me ask yourself this, how many people who rob a convenience store of $500 or carry two or three joints around with them (that the police know about) go to jail, percentages wise? Now how many people who knowingly bilked the American people out of millions, even billions of dollars (and they definitely know who they were) went to jail? We had to bail out most of Wall Street because of Fraud, how many Fraud perps went to prison?? I see left leaning memes all the time, some of them cute and true, others just silly to stupid, but one that I absolutely believe went like this, "Bernie Madeoff went to prison, not because he robbed the 99% but because he robbed the 1%".

You assume that I am conservative because I disagree with you. Fact of the matter is that I align with whatever works. It's a happy place. OK fair enough, but it sounds like you assume I'm a liberal because I disagree with you? What's the difference. The fact of the matter is, I'm somewhere in the middle, I'm fairly liberal on some issues and I'm very conservative on others, sort of like my fraternal twin AA. He and I have lots of common ground though we also disagree sometimes. Where is our (yours and mine) common ground?? I do agree with you on this point for sure, the whatever works area is pretty good, it allows me to criticize both sides which is pretty cool. The biggest problem I see with this though is that what we're doing right now AIN'T working and no matter how much Faux, far right websites, or talk radio whine, bitch, moan, and complain about the "takers" ruining this country it isn't going to get any better, because quite frankly they're attacking the wrong bunch of takers!!!

Oh and I especially love the REDISTRIBUTE word, that's rich (no pun intended) because the wealthy have been doing that for like forever, but especially since the 80s. The sorry SOBs know its wrong and distasteful so that's why they use it as a talking point because then those who are getting taken don't notice they're doing it, they only notice those who the real villains in this story point out to them" More slight of hand stuff.
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