Rosenthal: Growing Pains In Atlanta, Or Big Changes Coming?

Dalyn said:
This organization ignored many of the problems after the collapse in '11. They can't do that again.
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Funny because the REd Sox had an equal collapse and it is interesting the paths the two teams have taken.
Sox cleaned house won WS only to collapse the following season

Braves stayed steady and loyal -

I think there is something to be said for both sides. As a fan of both teams today I am more encouraged with the youth and front office of the Sox.
Proactive isn't a strong enough word. How's bout the Marlins with a bankroll
 
57Brave said:
Funny because the REd Sox had an equal collapse and it is interesting the paths the two teams have taken.
Sox cleaned house won WS only to collapse the following season

Braves stayed steady and loyal -

I think there is something to be said for both sides. As a fan of both teams today I am more encouraged with the youth and front office of the Sox.
Proactive isn't a strong enough word. How's bout the Marlins with a bankroll
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The appropriate response would've been something in the middle. A few key subtractions. Like you said, the Red Sox won the World Series two years later, so their approach was closer to the right one than ours.
 
I feel like if they didnt jettison Gonzalez after that they never will.

After that season there was a huge warranted personnel turnover - I expect that this winter
Again I'm in favor of changing the wole managerial-coaching staff.

this is a young team and methinks they could use another cast of voices.
Having said that the new voices will say the same things (unless they bring in a Kirk Gibson type which is what I hear many hear calling for)

The Nats are playing so much better for Williams than Johnson. Same players (less Zimm plus Astrubil) In 2013 the Sox I'm sure enjoyed hearing it from Farrell rather than Tito. Just a change.

Fredi and the coaches will get other jobs - they are all proven MLB leaders. Just time for everyone to geta change of scenery
(on another note - who else thinks the Nats helped themselves inadvertantly by have Cabrera instead of RyZimm !!!)
 
Fredi needs to manage a team with less on the line. Would be a good guy for someone rebuilding and three or four years away from contending. I just hope he doesn't turn this team into THAT team. Might as well stick around if he does.
 
Doesn't that seem to be a new trend in pro sports? Targeting certain types leaders for certain levels of the procesI personally think this team has gotten from Fredi what Fredi has to give.
If memory serves the Marlins were successful to a point then they seemed to tune him out. I know they had an in between guy or two but the next major hire they had at manager was Ozzie.

Wonder how Ozzie would play in ATL? Cox loved him and wsas one of the first to say he was manager material.
 
57Brave said:
Doesn't that seem to be a new trend in pro sports? Targeting certain types leaders for certain levels of the procesI personally think this team has gotten from Fredi what Fredi has to give.
If memory serves the Marlins were successful to a point then they seemed to tune him out. I know they had an in between guy or two but the next major hire they had at manager was Ozzie.

Wonder how Ozzie would play in ATL? Cox loved him and wsas one of the first to say he was manager material.
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I wanted to see us fire Fredi (he's a terrible manager when the game or season is on the line) before September and give Snitker a look under pressure of a playoff race. Clearly that isn't going to happen.
 
Dalyn said:
This organization ignored many of the problems after the collapse in '11. They can't do that again.
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What? We won 94 games and coasted to the playoffs the next year. The organization did what it should have done. That September was a massive fluke fueled by injuries.
 
57Brave said:
Funny because the REd Sox had an equal collapse and it is interesting the paths the two teams have taken.
Sox cleaned house won WS only to collapse the following season

Braves stayed steady and loyal -

I think there is something to be said for both sides. As a fan of both teams today I am more encouraged with the youth and front office of the Sox.
Proactive isn't a strong enough word. How's bout the Marlins with a bankroll
Click to expand...

Red Sox changed managers twice. Bobby Valentine was their first answer. They won the WS last year with some of their lesser players putting together very good seasons. In retrospect, they had a tremendous amount of luck last year that I would say was unrelated to the turnover at the manager spot.
 
Btw...letting go of Schafer might turn out to be a big mistake, but not much is made of it around here since just about everyone wanted him released.
 
nsacpi said:
Btw...letting go of Schafer might turn out to be a big mistake, but not much is made of it around here since just about everyone wanted him released.
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It's not a mistake. He would've never played this way on the Braves, and he's shown this type of temporary results before only to crash right back down to below the level of suck.
 
57Brave said:
CJ reminded me of Ken Oberkfell . One season where he played way over his head. Difference is, Whitey Herzog saw that.
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It might also have had something to do with Terry Pendleton coming up. Then, the Braves went and go him too!
 
Nah Knucksie - remember Jim Presley? He might be the closest on field comparison to BJ. I think there was one or two others too.
Ron Gant was tried there as well before TP. Oberkfell went to the Pirates with Zane Smith if memory serves in -- 88? That might be how they wound up with Omar Moreno. Another on field comparison.

Looking back that was the issue with the late 80's teams Murph and 7 BJ's !!
 
nsacpi said:
Btw...letting go of Schafer might turn out to be a big mistake, but not much is made of it around here since just about everyone wanted him released.
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Not if he was going to be used the way he was being used. I wouldn't call myself a Schafer fan. The guy has some warts. But he's a perfectly suitable 4th OF type if he gets enough action to stay sharp. He stunk all year for us, but his best month (not very good) was the one in which he saw the most action. There aren't a ton of guys who can be productive with 15 to 20 ABs a month. He plays good defense and he is a very good baserunner. He's done well in Minnesota partially because there is no pressure and partially because he is getting predictable playing time. Again, he's no world-beater, but I won't be surprised if he has a better big league career than either Todd Cunningham or Kyle Wren.
 
50PoundHead said:
Not if he was going to be used the way he was being used. I wouldn't call myself a Schafer fan. The guy has some warts. But he's a perfectly suitable 4th OF type if he gets enough action to stay sharp. He stunk all year for us, but his best month (not very good) was the one in which he saw the most action. There aren't a ton of guys who can be productive with 15 to 20 ABs a month. He plays good defense and he is a very good baserunner. He's done well in Minnesota partially because there is no pressure and partially because he is getting predictable playing time. Again, he's no world-beater, but I won't be surprised if he has a better big league career than either Todd Cunningham or Kyle Wren.
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I agree. But then again his career could also go up in smoke.
 
Given the way BJ was playing, I don't understand why Schafer wasn't given one or two games a week on a regular basis. This is not about Schafer. It is about how you use a substitute, especially at a position where the starter is having a poor season.
 
nsacpi said:
Given the way BJ was playing, I don't understand why Schafer wasn't given one or two games a week on a regular basis. This is not about Schafer. It is about how you use a substitute, especially at a position where the starter is having a poor season.
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Let me try to clear up any confusion -

.204 .313 .287 .600

.242 .309 .315 .624

.211 .297 .294 .591 (most playing time)

.247 .331 .346 .677

.243 .325 .306 .631
 
57Brave said:
I feel like if they didnt jettison Gonzalez after that they never will.

After that season there was a huge warranted personnel turnover - I expect that this winter
Again I'm in favor of changing the wole managerial-coaching staff.

this is a young team and methinks they could use another cast of voices.
Having said that the new voices will say the same things (unless they bring in a Kirk Gibson type which is what I hear many hear calling for)

The Nats are playing so much better for Williams than Johnson. Same players (less Zimm plus Astrubil) In 2013 the Sox I'm sure enjoyed hearing it from Farrell rather than Tito. Just a change.

Fredi and the coaches will get other jobs - they are all proven MLB leaders. Just time for everyone to geta change of scenery
(on another note - who else thinks the Nats helped themselves inadvertantly by have Cabrera instead of RyZimm !!!)
Click to expand...

Asdrubal Cabrera is a pretty good ballplayer, but so is Ryan Zimmerman. Rendon is probably more comfortable at 3B than 2B, so that's maybe a plus. Cabrera is a SS playing 2B, so they probably gain defense there. Having Zimmerman back for the playoffs will make the Nats a tough squad. Lots of flexibility and the assurance of a good bat off the bench (whichever of the guys is on the bench).
 
Don't ask me why, I have no data to back this up, but I see the Nats line up working better with Cabrera rather than Zimmerman.
The Nats have 3 quality plus middle line up players. Werth.LaRouche and Desmond
I do think lineups can be middle heavy

With JHey hitting 5 I see the Braves lineup work better with Bethencourt rather than Gattis.

There is no basis for this idea and it is totally illogical it just seems to be that way. The Nats seemed to hit their stride after this deal was done and the team was settled
I guess flow is the word I am looking for. Or as Fredi says "the line keeps moving"

I'm curious to see how Williams handles Zimm coming back. Curiouser still to see how the team reacts

This is as strange to me as the Braves record with and without Uggla. I always had the feeling the "team" hit better with him in the lineup. Thinking the numbers might bear that out.
What a strange ****ing game
 
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