Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

While we've been mostly chatting about the Papadopoulos case today, it seems to me that there is one aspect of the Manafort indictments that should be quite chilling to Trump. And this was Mueller's going back 11 years to look for financial crimes by Manafort.
 
so what was the quid pro quo...the outlines have been there for a while but it is becoming clearer

1) Russians ascertain that there is interest from the Trump campaign in any dirt they can provide on Hillary

2) Trump campaign express eagerness for such dirt (meeting taken by Junior, Kushner and Manafort, the efforts by Papadopoulos).

3) Russians express desire for better relations, which for them amounts to sanctions relief and acceptance of Crimean annexation

4) As a down payment, GOP platform plank on Ukraine is changed. Trump makes improved relations with Russia a big part of his campaign.

5) Podesta emails are released via Wikileaks.

I don't think we will find a signed memorandum of understanding spelling all this out. But the dots are there to be connected. Yet to be determined is if collusion took place at a more granular level (exchange of targeting information for certain groups of voters, etc). Collusion might also not be quite the right word. What seems to have happened is a sort of intricate dance out of which a convergence of interests emerged. Sometimes one partner led and other times the other did.

It is also not clear if Trump committed any crimes. But I never thought the legal aspect of this affair (while very important and interesting) was the most critical one. To me the most important part of all this is to have the public made as fully aware as possible of what transpired. And some of the efforts to obscure what happened have been very impressive if sometimes comical.

The fact that some will refuse to take an honest look at what actually happened should not discourage those trying to bring the facts to light.
 
The goal right now is to have enough stench of everyone around Trump to where even if there isn't enough that can directly implicate him, that his Presidency is tainted enough to where Congress hesitates on working with any legislation with him in the public eye.
 
Forever Fredi said:
The goal right now is to have enough stench of everyone around Trump to where even if there isn't enough that can directly implicate him, that his Presidency is tainted enough to where Congress hesitates on working with any legislation with him in the public eye.
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He is the duly elected President. As such, I have no interest in seeing him removed from office. I want him in there for the full four years. That's what we deserve as a country. I'm sorry to say.
 
nsacpi said:
He is the duly elected President. As such, I have no interest in seeing him removed from office. I want him in there for the full four years. That's what we deserve as a country. I'm sorry to say.
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Sad I have to agree with you. Like I said, there may not be enough hard evidence to impeach him, but if his Office is that tainted then perhaps McConnell or Ryan politically wouldn't want to work with him as much on things. Also might help the Dems take some seats in the Senate. They should push hard for Cruz's seat in Texas especially with the demographics in that state shifting more.
 
Forever Fredi said:
Sad I have to agree with you. Like I said, there may not be enough hard evidence to impeach him, but if his Office is that tainted then perhaps McConnell or Ryan politically wouldn't want to work with him as much on things. Also might help the Dems take some seats in the Senate. They should push hard for Cruz's seat in Texas especially with the demographics in that state shifting more.
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If he does go to jail it will likely be for past financial crimes a la Manafort.

There is also the question of obstruction of justice (Rod Rosenstein might turn out to be the most important witness there) but that is essentially a political question that probably will turn on what the voters say in the mid-terms.
 
Let me go out on a limb
Robert Mueller doesn't do politics.

He didn't go through Spicers "copious notes" or have a 10 hour interview with Reince Priebus to learn what people eat for lunch.
Trump and obstruction of justice are much in his sights.

My reading tells me Mueller also has Trump's tax returns
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57Brave said:
Let me go out on a limb

Robert Mueller doesn't do politics.

He didn't go through Spicers "copious notes" or have a 10 hour interview with Reince Priebus to learn what people eat for lunch.

Trump and obstruction of justice are much in his sights.

My reading tells me Mueller also has Trump's tax returns

..................
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I could see him I indicting trump on tax charges...obstruction is something he would forward to the house judiciary committee
 
why ?

We've watched Mueller be aggressive with obstruction. I don't think he would give the (R) House any of his work they wouldn't use.
 
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