Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

Hawk said:
I believe the Russians may have overtly interfered with the election. I don't believe that the Trump campaign (proper) colluded with them.

Extremely poor judgement? No. I see due diligence.

I didn't say it was nothing at all, I said it was nothing alone.
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I know Hawk isnt the "left" but going to list what everyone thought regardless of their side. We can exonerate him of thinking the collusion investigation would bring Trump down.
 
jpx7 said:
My first comment in this thread regarded the fact that I think a lot of this is being overblown, or overemphasized, and otherwise is a waste of good, necessary anti-Trump, anti-regressive energies that should be better spent on more substantial battles. I've also made clear that I think President Pence could very likely be worse than President Trump, for my policy concerns and from my values perspective, so I'm not one of these folks rocking in the corner, blind, thirsty, foaming at the mouth for impeachment. I'll further elaborate that, in fact, I find the likelihood of real criminal prosecution, punishment, or even the anti-Trump needle being moved much from where it is to be quite small, barring much more substantial and legally-damning evidence arising.

Having said all that, I find the two notions advanced in this thread equally specious, and bordering on absurd, in the own way. The first is that the Trump Family is some persecuted Mel Gibson from Conspiracy Theory, buffeted from all sides, unsure of who to trust, and forced to take up their own vigilante investigation to uncover dark truths for the greater good of the nation. The second is that it is laudable due-diligence to follow-up (with demonstrable avidity) with a foreign national promising leaked and/or stolen documents* to influence an election, with purported foreign government support of said intervention—even if said support was exaggerated or fabricated, and even if nothing ultimately came of said meeting.
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I think we can exonerate jpx7. I don't keep tabs on everyones political beliefs but I believe he is of the left.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Is manipulating foreign elections wrong or is it only when it happens to us? How many foreign elections do you think Hillary has manipulated? She is on tape saying they should have manipulated the Palestinian elections to make sure the right guy won.


When we extradite our own government officials to the countries that they illegally manipulated their elections I will start caring about what Russia did. Fact is Russia has tries to influence our elections for the past 75 years. We do it all over the world. None of you would care if Putin did the same things to help Hillary.
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Is this what counts for buying into the "fake news Russia hoax"?
 
Julio3000 said:
I think that it is very unlikely that the Russians "stole" the election, although since there hasn't been a thorough audit of their penetration into state voter databases, I can't say that with certainty, in that the election could have swung on tens of thousands of votes in a couple of states. I think that needs to be fully explored, not necessarily because of the 2016 angle but for the security of future elections. Relevant disclaimers about HRC ****ty candidacy and campaign apply, of course.

Is Trump a patsy? Almost certainly not in the "Manchurian candidate" sense that you mean. A patsy, though? An un-or-barely-witting subject of manipulation? That's still an open question, though I lean to "no." I think that his bizarre sucking up to Putin was more attributable to the TT Moscow project rather than to blackmail. His subsequent softsoap approach to Russia--and to Putin specifically--is genuinely troubling and I understand why it breeds suspicion.

I've always thought there was a distinct possibility that there was some kind of conspiratorial angle with Russia involving the campaign, at least a coin-flip's chance that there was active collusion (though I thought, and still do, that it would be difficult to prove) and a small but significant non-zero chance that Trump himself was aware of either.

My bottom line is that it needs to see the light of day, if for no other reason than that the obfuscation and untruths about the campaign/Russia have piled up into a garbage fire that can't be ignored.
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Heres Julios thoughts on Russian Collusion investigation. Still failing to see the "left" around here falling for any fake news regarding this.
 
cajunrevenge said:
And Runnin accurately predicted nothing would happen to Trump. Where are these people who thought Trump and Russia was a formality and once the Mueller report dropped he would be going to prison and removed?
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Thanks, comrade. I believed the POTUS would ultimately be protected by the institutions that he had become part of and I think that's what happened. Mueller could've taken a kill shot but chose not to, as could've Bolton, Kelly, and a few others who had the credibility. They chose to protect themselves and the office/institution, though I'm not sure in what order.

If OO loses this election and meets some of his karma before he escapes to either the jungles of Paraguay or some high rise self imposed prison, maybe they were right to do so.
 
nsacpi said:
Bannon's comments do highlight something that isn't much appreciated. Which is that the matter of "collusion" during the campaign is a distant third in terms of the biggest threats to the Trump presidency.

The two much bigger threats have to do with financial crimes that pre-date his run for the presidency and obstruction which occurred after he became president.

Not that I think a thorough investigation of Russian interference is not warranted. I think it is important to get to the bottom of it and hope Mueller will be allowed to finish his work.
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bump
 
P. 103. sturg asks for specifics on what the Russians have done to affect the elections. I mention the hacking of Podesta's emails.

thethe said:
Do we have proof that they hacked Podesta?
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sturg33 said:
And that has been proven without a shadow of doubt? Bc I thought wikileaks distributed.

Meanwhile, was the hacking what hurt HRC or the content? What matters?
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nsacpi said:
To the extent the intelligence services have been able to pinpoint it, the individual(s) or organization(s) responsible are associated with the moniker Fancy Bear, who seems to work for the Russians.
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Hawk said:
Apparently the "collusion" they were referring to all along was between Michael Wolff and Steve Bannon.
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sturg33 said:
This is BIG
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sturg33 said:
Ahhh. Well I guess that passes for proof now
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a medley of some of the greatest hits...all on page 103 of this thread
 
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A landslide for Biden and a Dem Senate majority would be way better than a guilty impeachment verdict.
 
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Runnin said:
A landslide for Biden and a Dem Senate majority would be way better a guilty impeachment verdict.
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i suppose

but we have to ask ourselves what it means for an entire political movement (backed by about 40% of the population) to have as perhaps its defining feature the propagation of disinformation and propaganda...it is not unique in history (Goebbels) but it is certainly unusual...it is a fact that should not be left uncommented upon...facts are precious things in our day and age...and facts about purveyors of disinformation and propaganda are especially precious
 
Runnin said:
A landslide for Biden and a Dem Senate majority would be way better a guilty impeachment verdict.
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Please let this happen


It would be so great to see after the utter failure and the capitulation to trump from the cowardly Republican Party

I have my doubts on the polls and this country actually doing the right thing though
 
nsacpi said:
this is where you are wrong

thethe doesn't believe in any of this ****

he just peddles it
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I know exactly what he is doing and I have been mocking him relentlessly for about 2 years now for it. Cant wait for 4 years of replying to every complaint about Biden with "Broken" and "Biden Derangement Syndrome"
 
nsacpi said:
i suppose

but we have to ask ourselves what it means for an entire political movement (backed by about 40% of the population) to have as perhaps its defining feature the propagation of disinformation and propaganda...it is not unique in history (Goebbels) but it is certainly unusual...it is a fact that should not be left uncommented upon...facts are precious things in our day and age...and facts about purveyors of disinformation and propaganda are especially precious
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Add to that the GOP showing little to no respect for legal process when it gets in their way and you have a big problem. I hope the Dems stop underestimating how far the GOP is willing to go to retain power, even as their numbers shrink.
 
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