Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

Hawk said:
A mercenary class with allegiances. We're talking about the party here.

As for the rest, I'm not making any sort of commentary aside from suggesting that the collusion crew slow their roll a bit and honestly assess the charges for what they are, withoutout overreach.
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No problem with that. Like I said recently, I've sort of given up on looking at the iceberg from the surface and trying to guess what's underwater. I just think it's rather bigger and more dangerous than one who'd say that what we can see is all that exists.
 
Runnin said:
It looks like a show of good faith to me.
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First of all, how was the platform pro-Russia?

I think in your research you'll find that the issue was selling weapons to the Ukraine.

Which the Trump administration ultimately did a few months ago.

I realize the conspiracy narrative is great fun, but it doesn't pass muster in this case.
 
Hawk said:
First of all, how was the platform pro-Russia?

I think in your research you'll find that the issue was selling weapons to the Ukraine.

Which the Trump administration ultimately did a few months ago.

I realize the conspiracy narrative is great fun, but it doesn't pass muster in this case.
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Yes, they ultimately did, though they look like they tried not to.
 
Runnin said:
Yes, they ultimately did, though they look like they tried not to.
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And trump bombed Syria (Russia ), is furthering a relationship with the Saudis and most importantly become an energy priducer. The latter would be the biggest move that weakens Russia.

So again, just not sure what consideration either party got. I guess it's easier to just scream collusion.
 
Putin also ordered an attack on the US-affiliated SDF, who we defended (quite well), in skirmish that cost ~100 Russians.

About a week and a half ago.

Funny how our newly minted Rossiya experts didn’t have any crack analysis to deliver on that score.
 
And if that isn’t a symptom of the disease then I don’t know what is.

Paul Manafort getting nailed for corruption two decades after he repped ****ing Mobutu Seko.

Hell’s bells, y’all.
 
thethe said:
And trump bombed Syria (Russia ), is furthering a relationship with the Saudis and most importantly become an energy priducer. The latter would be the biggest move that weakens Russia.

So again, just not sure what consideration either party got. I guess it's easier to just scream collusion.
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Pres Trump is running military operations? LOL
 
There are two types of people in this world: those who know how to convert PDFs into Word documents and those who are indicted for money laundering. Paul Manafort is the second kind of person.

Here’s the relevant passage from the indictment.

Manafort and Gates made numerous false and fraudulent representations to secure the loans. For example, Manafort provided the bank with doctored [profit and loss statements] for [Davis Manafort Inc.] for both 2015 and 2016, overstating its income by millions of dollars. The doctored 2015 DMI P&L submitted to Lender D was the same false statement previously submitted to Lender C, which overstated DMI’s income by more than $4 million. The doctored 2016 DMI P&L was inflated by Manafort by more than $3.5 million. To create the false 2016 P&L, on or about October 21, 2016, Manafort emailed Gates a .pdf version of the real 2016 DMI P&L, which showed a loss of more than $600,000. Gates converted that .pdf into a “Word” document so that it could be edited, which Gates sent back to Manafort. Manafort altered that “Word” document by adding more than $3.5 million in income. He then sent this falsified P&L to Gates and asked that the “Word” document be converted back to a .pdf, which Gates did and returned to Manafort. Manafort then sent the falsified 2016 DMI P&L .pdf to Lender D.

:facepalm:
 
Manafort offers to work for free?
[video=youtube;6wVlxn7SdnE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wVlxn7SdnE[/video]
 
Hawk said:
That question is kind of the crux of the entire thing. Even if there was a quid pro quo involving Manafort (which hasn't been proven yet), we've got to determine whether or not it related to collusion (broadly, even) before it really matters if anyone else knew/was involved.
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That is one question. Can the quid pro quo be proven in a court of law. And who knew about and participated in it. I think anyone who knew about and participated in such a quid pro quo is open to conspiracy charges. Conspiracy to break campaign finance laws that prohibit accepting contributions from foreigners.

There is a larger question, having to do with the court of public opinion. It seems to me the case is building that the campaign manager (Manafortov) made a deal with the Russians. The campaign changed the Ukraine platform plank. They brought in Konstantin Kilimnik to be a close observer for a purpose. So he could communicate back to his colleagues about what had happened. Changing the plank is a sort of demonstration of bona fides. This is coupled with an offer of "private briefings" on Trump sanctions policy.

In return, Manafortov receives forgiveness on financial debt to Deripaska and Russians inform Trump campaign they will be releasing hacked Podesta emails. (Please note lack of definite and indefinite articles in preceding sentence. For anyone lucky enough to come across such people in future, this is hint you are dealing with Russian.)

As Bannon has noted, the appropriate response to much of this would have been to call in the FBI. This does not appear to have happened at any point. I don't count the Australian ambassador to the U.K. since he was not part of the campaign. It is interesting to contrast his reaction with that of the people in the campaign. I will speculate that part of the reason why no alarm bells went off is that Trump and many people in the campaign (including Manafortov) had a history with the Russians and were naturally inclined to view them as partners. Partners in crime I am tempted to add. One of the interesting issues in this entire matter is this mindset or "world view" that colored the entire set of interactions with the Russians. To the Trumpies, it might have all seemed par for the course. For those of us not as um experienced when it comes to dealing with Russians, it takes on a different coloration.
 
"How do we use (high profile, powerful position in Trump campaign) to get whole? Has OVD operation seen?" wrote Manafort. OVD - Oleg Vladimirivich Deripaska, Russian oligarch supposedly owed millions by Manafort.

"If he (OVD) needs private briefings (on Trump campaign progress???) we can accommodate," wrote Manafort.

Trump/Manafort -> Konstantin Kilimnik -> Oleg Deripaska/Vladimir Putin
 
Manafort is in hot water up to his Windsor knot. I hope the FBI is keeping eyes on him.

They should probably go ahead and pick him up for safe keeping.
 
Runnin said:
Manafort is in hot water up to his Windsor knot. I hope the FBI is keeping eyes on him.

They should probably go ahead and pick him up for safe keeping.
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definite flight risk...from where he lives in Florida, it is easy to hop on a boat and disappear
 
If he did do all this stuff to help the Russians, he might be a suicide risk. Life in prison or flip and spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder.
 
bravesnumberone said:
If he did do all this stuff to help the Russians, he might be a suicide risk. Life in prison or flip and spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder.
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The clinic permitted Paul Manafort one 10-minute call each day. And each day, he would use it to ring his wife from Arizona, his voice often soaked in tears. “Apparently he sobs daily,” his daughter Andrea, then 29, texted a friend. During the spring of 2015, Manafort’s life had tipped into a deep trough. A few months earlier, he had intimated to his other daughter, Jessica, that suicide was a possibility. He would “be gone forever,” she texted Andrea.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/

I have heard though that people who threaten suicide are less likely to do it. Might be one of those urban myths.
 
thethe said:
Anyone want to make an argument that Russia has benefited from the trump presidency?
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I think it has blown up in their face. Unlike Trump, I don't find Putin to be all that impressive. Sometimes you can admire a guy who plays for the other side, even if you oppose him. Putin aint one of those, at least for me.
 
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