SB Nation Profile of Leo Mazzone

Heywood said:
I'm certain the actions of not inviting Leo to do anything in the organization is an eye popper. He's been acclaimed by some as one of the best assistant coaches in professional sports. Yet 10 years later the organization he was successful with for a decade and a half does not want anything to do with him. Not even induct him into the Braves Hall.
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I don't doubt there is bad blood. I don't even doubt the Braves fed reporters infirmation. All I'm saying is that nobody knows these things and yet we act like JS got up in front of a podium and made mother jokes about Leo's mom.

Like it or not but nobody else in baseball hired leo. Ever wonder why?
 
thethe said:
I don't doubt there is bad blood. I don't even doubt the Braves fed reporters infirmation. All I'm saying is that nobody knows these things and yet we act like JS got up in front of a podium and made mother jokes about Leo's mom.

Like it or not but nobody else in baseball hired leo. Ever wonder why?
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They are scared ****less of his throwing program and Leo won't compromise on that. That was essentially the gist of that entire article the OP posted.
 
That stuff was out there, thethe. Intimations that he wasn't able to relate to the young pitchers and had no patience with them...I remember that stuff and more.

I think Leo decided to move on, and the organization, concerned with the optics of letting a guy with his rep go, sprinkled some tidbits to the press. I can't say with certainty that it happened that way, but a bunch of anonymous sources bad-mouthing the guy sure feels that way.
 
thethe said:
All I'm saying is that nobody knows these things and yet we act like JS got up in front of a podium and made mother jokes about Leo's mom
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So, you're comfortable with the idea that, as GM, Frank Wren was responsible for asshole behavior of his subordinates. But in this case, if several unnamed sources in the organization ****-talk Leo after he leaves ... where does the buck stop?
 
Leo was the man, no doubt about it. Even taking away the core of the pitching staff off that era in Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine and his body of work is outstanding. Year after year, the 5th starter and bullpen consisted of reclamation projects and year after year guys that were considered done or garbage came here and performed and pitched outstanding. Then throw in the throwing program and the outstanding track record of relatively arm injury free pitchers and the guy is HOF worthy.

But he's a little abrasive, and says it like he sees it, so somebody's ego is gonna get hurt.
 
Julio3000 said:
So, you're comfortable with the idea that, as GM, Frank Wren was responsible for asshole behavior of his subordinates. But in this case, if several unnamed sources in the organization ****-talk Leo after he leaves ... where does the buck stop?
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yep... thethe is certain Wren was an ass - but doesn't believe the same reporters saying the same stuff about Leo
 
Gotta wonder exactly who in the organization has such issue with Leo? I would think it would have to be JS more so than Bobby. I think if Bobby had such an issue with him, then he wouldn't have been kept around for so many years, regardless how the pitching staff was doing.
 
Julio3000 said:
So, you're comfortable with the idea that, as GM, Frank Wren was responsible for asshole behavior of his subordinates. But in this case, if several unnamed sources in the organization ****-talk Leo after he leaves ... where does the buck stop?
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The man who resided over an incredible run of farm system success shows up back at our door the minute Wren is ousted. Gammon writes an article about Cox wanting to quit in ST but JS convinced him to stay. The evidence of Wren being a dick is way more conclusive and is not sourced from "unnamed" individuals.
 
All this over a pitching coach that's been gone 10 years.

Jason Marquis is still pitching. Beat the Braves last week.

Sure would be a nice fit.

///

Players win games not managers and certainly not pitching coaches.
 
sturg33 said:
yep... thethe is certain Wren was an ass - but doesn't believe the same reporters saying the same stuff about Leo
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That is not the issue here at all. I believe the reporters and what they reported about Leo. I'm just waiting for the stories that said the Braves said Leo is a D-Bag. So far all I've read are former players and observations made by reporters. Try to stay on task here sir.
 
thethe said:
Like it or not but nobody else in baseball hired leo. Ever wonder why?
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I legitimately believe his poor record with the Orioles probably led to teams being scared of giving him offers. Plus how many pitching coach opportunities do you remember being avaialble the past 5 years?
 
Perfect Cell said:
Nobody does in ATL. Smoltz, Chipper, Glavine, Wren, ect. The Braves rarely end relationships well. We can repair them on occasion but not always. "The Braves way".....
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So Glavine was because he completely shunned the Braves and they had a right to be pissed. Chipper was the players and had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the front office. The beef with Smoltz irked me because he was my second favorite Brave behind Chipper (that was on JS) and we have discussed Wren ad nauseum and I think the resulting actions justify everything that has been reported about Wren.

But hey, lets just continue this trend of ****ting on the Braves this offseason!
 
thewupk said:
at getting pitchers injured?
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McDowell can't be blamed for guys like Medlen, Beachy, Hanson, etc. They had terrible mechanics before getting to the bigs. By the time they get here what motivation do they have to change what made them successful?
 
thethe said:
So Glavine was because he completely shunned the Braves and they had a right to be pissed. Chipper was the players and had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the front office. The beef with Smoltz irked me because he was my second favorite Brave behind Chipper (that was on JS) and we have discussed Wren ad nauseum and I think the resulting actions justify everything that has been reported about Wren.

But hey, lets just continue this trend of ****ting on the Braves this offseason!
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I didnt say all of them were related to the front office. I think its a systematic and deeper issue. I could go on an on with examples. Andruw Jones ect. And none of them are excusable or justified btw.

oh and finally ive barely even spoken about the Braves this offseason myself. Only thing ive "#$@" on them was really the fact that they kept Fredi on when hes been a failiure as a manager for 2 of the past 4 years. Once hes gone we will read on braves.com how bad he was btw. Totally expect that.
 
Perfect Cell said:
I legitimately believe his poor record with the Orioles probably led to teams being scared of giving him offers. Plus how many pitching coach opportunities do you remember being avaialble the past 5 years?
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Oh, so you are saying that the Braves organization provided Leo with great pitching talent and he could make gold out of ****? I guess that speaks to the point 57 made and that all these coaches are given way too much credit.
 
Perfect Cell said:
I didnt say all of them were related to the front office. I think its a systematic and deeper issue. I could go on an on with examples. Andruw Jones ect. And none of them are excusable or justified btw.

oh and finally ive barely even spoken about the Braves this offseason myself. Only thing ive "#$@" on them was really the fact that they kept Fredi on when hes been a failiure as a manager for 2 of the past 4 years. Once hes gone we will read on braves.com how bad he was btw. Totally expect that.
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I'm sorry PC. that wasn't a comment directed specifically at you. Didn't want to offend you.
 
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