I liked Bong. He did so well for as as a long reliever that I wanted him to get a shot at starting. Didn't work out though. Also after he left seemed like the last we saw of rrandomm.
SB Nation Profile of Leo Mazzone
- Thread starter MadduxFanII
- Start date
I liked Bong. He did so well for as as a long reliever that I wanted him to get a shot at starting. Didn't work out though. Also after he left seemed like the last we saw of rrandomm.
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
Can I please erase my memory of the recollections that have been dug up in the last 10 minutes or so? Please, save me. I think the only thing that could piss me off more is recollections of Andy Ashby in a Braves uniform and Fredi Gonzalez.
I'm not convinced that Will Cunnane and Buddy Carlyle weren't the same kindred spirit, who's now living in the shell of Brandon Cunniff.
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
Speaking of Shanks, I remember how much hype Belisle was getting coming up through the system. I was extremely high on him as well in the few times I saw him in the minors, but Bill was comparing him to the next John Smoltz. Of course he had the knee issues I believe but still was dominant coming up through the minors and was waiting for his much anticipated arrival to the big leagues in some form. Then the Mercker trade happened, and many and myself included were like WTF, and Bill basically said the Braves were concerned about Belisle ability to stay healthy and was damaged goods and wouldn't be able to hold up. He became a quality MLB reliever, and in all places Colorado.
I'm still awaiting for the vaunted rotation of Wainwright, Belisle, Marquis, Pratt, Nelson
I mean after all Bill's comps for these guys were only Halladay, Smoltz, Kevin Brown, Steve Carlton, and Derek Lowe
CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER ROTATION I SAY!!!
I'm still awaiting for the vaunted rotation of Wainwright, Belisle, Marquis, Pratt, Nelson
I mean after all Bill's comps for these guys were only Halladay, Smoltz, Kevin Brown, Steve Carlton, and Derek Lowe
CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER ROTATION I SAY!!!
Bubba Nelson. Bravedad. Mmmmmhmmmm.
MadduxFanII
Swallowed by Mark Bowman
I always did have the courage of my convictions.
Smoltz starting winning after the sessions with the sports psychologist. He explained the importance in great detail in his book.
As your namesake, you should recall that Zito practiced yoga, which no doubt made massive contributions toward keeping him healthy. Not that it has anything to do with this thread topic, but Zito's father was an arranger for Nat "King" Cole.
They were winning pennants and a World Series with Otis Nixon and then Marquis Grissom catching all those fly balls previously. Here is a gift for the "statheads." Check out Maddux's number from '92 with Cubs and compare with '93 with Braves. Just a hunch, but guessing that there will be an almost mirror image.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Yoga kept him in shape, but it wouldn't make him more durable. More than a few people pin point his mechanics as an issue that caused him to lose velocity.
Two separate issues here. Remember you're conversing with an engineer here.
Au contraire. If more players would practice yoga, it would reduce occurance of injuries, along with recovery time and, yes, extend careers.
Probably so, but often a complex problem is seldom attributed to just one factor. He could've also been distracted and pre-occupied with how to spend his money.
Au contraire. If more players would practice yoga, it would reduce occurance of injuries, along with recovery time and, yes, extend careers.
Probably so, but often a complex problem is seldom attributed to just one factor. He could've also been distracted and pre-occupied with how to spend his money.
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
That was in 1991, after he was already a successful major leaguer, but then got frazzled. I'm talking about when we acquired him for Alexander.
- AA, Tigers, 1987: 5.68 ERA
- Mazzone fixes his delivery
- AAA, Braves, 1988: 2.79 ERA
- MLB, Braves, 1989: 2.94 ERA, All-Star
Barry never threw fast, and he was never really a big guy. His mechanics may be weird but they're hardly bad.
Yoga helped him out definitely. Barry never relied on power when pitching he relied on flexibility which allowed him to throw from variable arm slots and get that hook on that curve.
Have you ever done Yoga zeets? I've done it for 9 years. Like Knucksie said, if more athletes did it (flexibility in general) it would reduce injuries by a lot.
One of the reasons that Leo swapped jobs with Bruce Dal Canton was because familiarity with Smoltz, Mercker, Avery, Greene, Lilliquist, etc. Dal Canton was Braves pitching coach when Smoltz was first at the MLB level though. So, it's difficult to assess the impact. As nice of honor as the '89 AS selection was, it could've been as much due to the league office deciding to have somebody to represent the Braves, who otherwise had nobody deserving. (Remember that was still during the "dark ages"). You also neglected to mention his MLB debut season, in which he got roughed up a bit. (Yes, we all realize that's normal.)
For everybody to review:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smoltjo01.shtml
Smoltz was really in a tailspin during the first half of '91, this was when Leo was very much with the big club. The sports psychologist helped him facilitate the transition. He took off and the team did. It gave him the confidence to want the ball when everything was on the line. Really, his problems were upstairs.
Not singling you out, specifically, but there does seem to be a tendency on this board to give the pitching & hitting coaches too much credit/too much blame. Ultimately, it's the players who must put it all together and make things happen.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I don't know if Smoltz' performance prior to Leo is much of an indication of anything. The Tigers really pushed Smoltz. He was a late-signee in 1985 and didn't play any rookie league ball at all, instead starting at High A the next season in the Florida State League (considered a pitcher-friendly league) as a 19-year-old. So he was pitching in AA at age 20 and got roughed up. I'm sure Leo helped him, but so did the fact that his talent and experience matched up better.
I'm not dissing Leo, but I think he does get a bit too much credit for the performance of some really talented guys.
We also have to question how much contact Leo had with Smoltz during those couple of years. Yeah, they definitely knew each other, probably spent some time, Leo watched throwing sessions with arms folded and there were some suggestions. Apart from that, didn't the role involve mostly travel? So, it's not as if he'd spend an entire season with Smoltz or make successive jumps from AA to AAA and so on.
Exactly. As I've mentioned, pitching instructions happens at the organizational level. There is more than one person to be credited to any pitchers improvement. But, this is yet another opportunity to find something to trash the Braves front office about so its expected.
MadduxFanII
Swallowed by Mark Bowman
I fail to see how "the Braves are not doing right by Leo Mazzone" is trashing the front office and unacceptable, but "Leo Mazzone gets way too much credit" isn't trashing Leo Mazzone and is perfectly in-bounds.
How is saying that Mazzone is still one of the better pitching coaches but doesn't deserve to be treated like the best of all time "trashing" him?