School Choice - It's Time
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acesfull86
Well-known member
School choice is working just about everywhere it’s been tried. Parent satisfaction is high. Educational outcomes are better. Public schools faced with increased competition generally perform better than they were previously.
I don’t think we need to completely privatize the system, I just want funding to follow the student, not the building. Get some accountability into a system that right now has very little. It’s time to try something new in this country because what we’ve been doing is producing embarrassingly poor results at eye watering costs.
acesfull86
Well-known member
https://www.edchoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2021-EdChoice-Study-Guide.pdf
92 percent of reviewed studies find private school choice
programs tend to induce public schools to improve. Moreover,
the research suggests that these positive effects are stronger
when there is a greater degree of choice for families and,
thus, competition among schools.
92 percent of reviewed studies find private school choice
programs tend to induce public schools to improve. Moreover,
the research suggests that these positive effects are stronger
when there is a greater degree of choice for families and,
thus, competition among schools.
acesfull86
Well-known member
https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/johnson-campaign-hits-barnes-on-school-choice/article_e24410ae-34f1-11ed-99a9-2f622e36f6af.html
(The Center Square) – Wisconsin’s U.S. Senator is making an issue out of what his reelection campaign is calling Mandela Barnes’ hypocrisy on school choice.
“After Lt. Gov. Barnes has reaped the benefits of private school, he has sought to prevent that choice for parents who only want what is best for their children. Barnes is a hypocrite who is only out for his own political gain,” Mike Marinella with the Johnson Campaign told The Center Square.
Barnes attended Holy Redeemer Christian Academy in elementary school and junior high before going on to graduate from Milwaukee’s John Marshall High School. Marinella noted those facts are something Barnes talks little about, and his public school teachers’ union supporters seemingly ignore.
...
Barnes’ opposition to school choice goes back to his days in the legislature where he sponsored legislation to eliminate school choice in Wisconsin.
His proposal would have repealed Wisconsin’s statewide parental choice program, barred private schools from participating in a school choice program unless the school was already in the program in the 2015-2016 school year, and prohibited students from attending a choice program private school unless the student was already attending that school under the program in the 2015-2016 school year.
As Lt. Governor he supported Gov. Evers’ proposed budget that would have frozen enrollments for private school voucher programs and would have stopped the creation of new schools of choice.
“Mandela Barnes was able to attend the school his family thought was best for him. We celebrate that connection,” Jim Bender with School Choice Wisconsin told The Center Square. “Unfortunately, he opposes similar opportunities for those less fortunate. He only supports education delivery systems that send money indirectly to teachers unions. The national head of the teachers’ union, along with our own Superintendent of Public Instruction, sent their own children to private schools, but join Mandela in the fight to keep school choice under wraps. School choice for me, but not for thee.”
(The Center Square) – Wisconsin’s U.S. Senator is making an issue out of what his reelection campaign is calling Mandela Barnes’ hypocrisy on school choice.
“After Lt. Gov. Barnes has reaped the benefits of private school, he has sought to prevent that choice for parents who only want what is best for their children. Barnes is a hypocrite who is only out for his own political gain,” Mike Marinella with the Johnson Campaign told The Center Square.
Barnes attended Holy Redeemer Christian Academy in elementary school and junior high before going on to graduate from Milwaukee’s John Marshall High School. Marinella noted those facts are something Barnes talks little about, and his public school teachers’ union supporters seemingly ignore.
...
Barnes’ opposition to school choice goes back to his days in the legislature where he sponsored legislation to eliminate school choice in Wisconsin.
His proposal would have repealed Wisconsin’s statewide parental choice program, barred private schools from participating in a school choice program unless the school was already in the program in the 2015-2016 school year, and prohibited students from attending a choice program private school unless the student was already attending that school under the program in the 2015-2016 school year.
As Lt. Governor he supported Gov. Evers’ proposed budget that would have frozen enrollments for private school voucher programs and would have stopped the creation of new schools of choice.
“Mandela Barnes was able to attend the school his family thought was best for him. We celebrate that connection,” Jim Bender with School Choice Wisconsin told The Center Square. “Unfortunately, he opposes similar opportunities for those less fortunate. He only supports education delivery systems that send money indirectly to teachers unions. The national head of the teachers’ union, along with our own Superintendent of Public Instruction, sent their own children to private schools, but join Mandela in the fight to keep school choice under wraps. School choice for me, but not for thee.”
acesfull86
Well-known member
https://www.aier.org/article/lol/
If long ago an evil genius were motivated to impose on Americans an irrational, costly, inefficient, and unresponsive system of K-12 schooling, that fiend could not have served his purposes better than to design the system in place today. Guarantee to each government-owned and operated school an annual revenue that is divorced, except perhaps perversely (see below), from the quality of education that it delivers to students. Check! Require that all property owners, even ones without children and ones who send their children to private schools, pay for this schooling. Check! Require that all children be formally schooled, and assign each student to one particular government school. No shopping around allowed. Check!
Who in his right mind believes that school administrators who receive their revenues directly from state or local governments (rather than directly from parents of school children), and who have a largely captive pool of customers, are strongly motivated to ensure that the children enrolled in their schools receive the best possible education? No one. Add to this dystopian arrangement the ease with which schools that perform especially poorly are able to use their poor performance as justification for receiving increased funding, and we’re in la-la land. Yet, this arrangement is the one that prevails today throughout the republic.
If long ago an evil genius were motivated to impose on Americans an irrational, costly, inefficient, and unresponsive system of K-12 schooling, that fiend could not have served his purposes better than to design the system in place today. Guarantee to each government-owned and operated school an annual revenue that is divorced, except perhaps perversely (see below), from the quality of education that it delivers to students. Check! Require that all property owners, even ones without children and ones who send their children to private schools, pay for this schooling. Check! Require that all children be formally schooled, and assign each student to one particular government school. No shopping around allowed. Check!
Who in his right mind believes that school administrators who receive their revenues directly from state or local governments (rather than directly from parents of school children), and who have a largely captive pool of customers, are strongly motivated to ensure that the children enrolled in their schools receive the best possible education? No one. Add to this dystopian arrangement the ease with which schools that perform especially poorly are able to use their poor performance as justification for receiving increased funding, and we’re in la-la land. Yet, this arrangement is the one that prevails today throughout the republic.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on expensive private school.
Lot of fighting this year and teachers trying to bring up the bottom third. This is by far the best public elementary in the side of the state. Unfortunately we have had a good bit of clients close down or downsize and the revenues are down a good bit. Some buy outs too so that’s making a choice tough right now
Lot of fighting this year and teachers trying to bring up the bottom third. This is by far the best public elementary in the side of the state. Unfortunately we have had a good bit of clients close down or downsize and the revenues are down a good bit. Some buy outs too so that’s making a choice tough right now
acesfull86
Well-known member
https://dailycaller.com/2022/09/30/dems-fail-take-down-arizonas-school-choice/
Opponents of Arizona’s school choice program, which provides state funds to students to attend schools outside of the public school system, failed to collect enough signatures to place the issue on the general election ballot, according to a Friday statement by Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs.
Save Our Schools Arizona, an organization that advocates for public schools, was unable to collect the required 118,823 signatures needed to put the state’s new school-choice program on the 2024 ballot, according to Hobbs. The school-choice program was signed into law in July, offering students the opportunity to receive funding for private and charter schools.
“The Secretary of State’s office has reviewed the petitions our campaign turned in and has determined we fell short of the minimum signature threshold required to stop universal voucher expansion,” Save Our Schools said in a statement. “Though our estimated signature count was much higher, the discrepancy was influenced by several factors, including the incredibly high volume of returns of petitions in the final week, days and hours of the campaign.”
...
Arizona’s new school choice program is the widest in the nation, as 1.1 million students are now eligible for vouchers to attend any private and charter school of their choosing. Approximately 100,000 students being homeschooled or attending private institutions can apply to receive vouchers of $7,000 to put towards their education.
Due to the high volume of applicants for the school vouchers, the deadline to apply has been extended to Oct. 15, according to the Arizona Department of Education’s website.
“This is a monumental moment for all of Arizona’s students. Our kids will no longer be locked in under-performing schools. Today, we’re unlocking a whole new world of opportunity for them and their parents,” Arizona Republican Gov. Doug Ducey said in a July press release. “With this legislation, Arizona cements itself as the top state for school choice and as the first state in the nation to offer all families the option to choose the school setting that works best for them.”
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Woooooo!
Opponents of Arizona’s school choice program, which provides state funds to students to attend schools outside of the public school system, failed to collect enough signatures to place the issue on the general election ballot, according to a Friday statement by Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs.
Save Our Schools Arizona, an organization that advocates for public schools, was unable to collect the required 118,823 signatures needed to put the state’s new school-choice program on the 2024 ballot, according to Hobbs. The school-choice program was signed into law in July, offering students the opportunity to receive funding for private and charter schools.
“The Secretary of State’s office has reviewed the petitions our campaign turned in and has determined we fell short of the minimum signature threshold required to stop universal voucher expansion,” Save Our Schools said in a statement. “Though our estimated signature count was much higher, the discrepancy was influenced by several factors, including the incredibly high volume of returns of petitions in the final week, days and hours of the campaign.”
...
Arizona’s new school choice program is the widest in the nation, as 1.1 million students are now eligible for vouchers to attend any private and charter school of their choosing. Approximately 100,000 students being homeschooled or attending private institutions can apply to receive vouchers of $7,000 to put towards their education.
Due to the high volume of applicants for the school vouchers, the deadline to apply has been extended to Oct. 15, according to the Arizona Department of Education’s website.
“This is a monumental moment for all of Arizona’s students. Our kids will no longer be locked in under-performing schools. Today, we’re unlocking a whole new world of opportunity for them and their parents,” Arizona Republican Gov. Doug Ducey said in a July press release. “With this legislation, Arizona cements itself as the top state for school choice and as the first state in the nation to offer all families the option to choose the school setting that works best for them.”
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Woooooo!
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
OK, you guys have sold on the basic premise of private schools. I'll be honest, the main things that disturb me about basically dismantling our public school system, which as much as you want to deny it will be the eventuality of it. So, answer me a few questions honestly and if you can provide fair, honest, realistic, and well thought out answers I'll vote your way.
I feel like we're in that one old South Park episode where the underpants gnomes had plan A, which was steal the underpants, and plan C, which was sell them for profit but they really hadn't thought out the plan B part very well. so,
1.) Can we agree that even though you guys are right about the pathetic state of our public school system just dismantling it and blindly going with a privatized system is not because our current system sucks, though it does? Can we agree that it's #1 goal is to destroy the teacher's union because they are thought to block vote Democrat, even though I can tell you at least 80% of the teachers I have ever known wouldn't vote for a Dem if they were the only ones on the ballot.
2.) Does your system have a legal protection element built in to protect the GOOD teachers who really are doing a good job, regardless of which system we go with?
3. How will you qualify and certify your teachers? What process, schooling, testing, etc., will your teachers have?
4.) What will you do when I'm right in that the new system will sell its souls for just a little more money flowing in and they'll sell out to the parents, administrators, and fake (or coached) test scores you guys claim to hold in such regard?
5.) What will be done about situations like this? https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/update-epic-charter-schools-co-founders-former-cfo-charged-in-elaborate-scheme-to-defraud-and/article_05a3aab2-f291-11ec-86a7-6389acc89957.html
6.) Do you believe that the police union should also be dismantled because they protect the small percentage of bad cops and punish or silence the many good cops who want to make that system better but can't.
7.) And lastly, what will you do when you finally figure out (whether you'll admit it or not) that your system won't work either because the same serpent is in the new garden as it is in the current one (money and more money at all costs).
OK, sell me on your new system and I mean with actual examples, ideas, etc., that you know the system will consist of, rather than just "privatization fixes everything" or "it has to be better than what we have now".
OK my friends, go for it!!!
I feel like we're in that one old South Park episode where the underpants gnomes had plan A, which was steal the underpants, and plan C, which was sell them for profit but they really hadn't thought out the plan B part very well. so,
1.) Can we agree that even though you guys are right about the pathetic state of our public school system just dismantling it and blindly going with a privatized system is not because our current system sucks, though it does? Can we agree that it's #1 goal is to destroy the teacher's union because they are thought to block vote Democrat, even though I can tell you at least 80% of the teachers I have ever known wouldn't vote for a Dem if they were the only ones on the ballot.
2.) Does your system have a legal protection element built in to protect the GOOD teachers who really are doing a good job, regardless of which system we go with?
3. How will you qualify and certify your teachers? What process, schooling, testing, etc., will your teachers have?
4.) What will you do when I'm right in that the new system will sell its souls for just a little more money flowing in and they'll sell out to the parents, administrators, and fake (or coached) test scores you guys claim to hold in such regard?
5.) What will be done about situations like this? https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/update-epic-charter-schools-co-founders-former-cfo-charged-in-elaborate-scheme-to-defraud-and/article_05a3aab2-f291-11ec-86a7-6389acc89957.html
6.) Do you believe that the police union should also be dismantled because they protect the small percentage of bad cops and punish or silence the many good cops who want to make that system better but can't.
7.) And lastly, what will you do when you finally figure out (whether you'll admit it or not) that your system won't work either because the same serpent is in the new garden as it is in the current one (money and more money at all costs).
OK, sell me on your new system and I mean with actual examples, ideas, etc., that you know the system will consist of, rather than just "privatization fixes everything" or "it has to be better than what we have now".
OK my friends, go for it!!!
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
Possibly. In fact the concept of privatizing schools for competition has a lot of merit, but it depends 100% on how it's handled. That's why I was hoping I could get some actual ideas, plans, steps, etc., which is why I posted this in the first place.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
Well if the people who are so hellbent on privatizing schools and destroying the teacher's union turn around and say they are 100% against police having any actual oversight we'll know their true colors won't we.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
That's very insightful.
EDIT: You're one of the more intelligent people here sturg, I was hoping for a little more substance from you.
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Devil's always in the details. There are some charter and other private schools that are fly-by-night operations. Crooks are everywhere. But competition should weed those out too.
sturg33
I
Literally everything in public education system is broken. They have more funding than ever and worse outcomes than ever. I want them to be dismantled about as much as any agency in the country
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
I'm fairly sure the only major way in which we disagree is that I want to teachers who ARE doing a good job to have legal protection. If your system has protections for those teachers who DO deserve it then I'll buy you a crowbar. Just showing us the stuff you don't like is fine but that doesn't really give me many details on what you want schools to be, just stuff you want them NOT to be.
So, your turn.