SCOTUS

[Oklahomahawk]

I remember Steve Kroft's report on 60 Minutes about it, which included the top dogs in Pelosi and Boehner.

I thought that public pressure forced them to do something about it, but it must have died down around the time the government shutdown happened.

If memory serves the American public threw a hissy fit so they said to calm down they'd do the research and take care of it. Well they just waited about a year until DUMAS America's piss ant sized attention span switched to something else and they quietly voted, almost unanimously to give themselves official licenses to steal.

 

[zitothebrave]

saying it's not by insulting me is a tired routine.

Do I own the money I earn, or not?

Yes, do you live in a country that provides you with police, roads, firedepartments, a standing army, etc. things like that are deemed important and paid by taxes. You're granted the opportunity to earn this money because of that infrastructure. If being rich in America was so hard, why didn't they leave? Or why aren't they leaving?

 

[Oklahomahawk]

Since Yeezus hasn't been around to gripe at me about this lately I can bring hip hop music/lifestyle/culture (their word for it, not mine) into this discussion. So, what do those things have to do with this discussion (they actually do by the way)?

 

[sturg33]

Yes, do you live in a country that provides you with police, roads, firedepartments, a standing army, etc. things like that are deemed important and paid by taxes. You're granted the opportunity to earn this money because of that infrastructure. If being rich in America was so hard, why didn't they leave? Or why aren't they leaving?

Police, roads, and fire departments are done at the local and state levels. Military is a federal function, and can of course be funded without income taxes. Again, income taxes have only been around for 100 years... and yet we managed to have roads, bridges, and military before then.

But the rich are leaving. See this article as an example

And don't even get me started on businesses leaving, either directly or via tax inversion.

The issue is, we're no longer getting a good return on our tax investment.

Like an major corporation, the US government has gotten too big and too inefficient to do just about anything well.

 

[sturg33]

they quietly voted, almost unanimously to give themselves official licenses to steal.

NO IT'S NOT STEALING IT'S TOTALLY LEGAL!!!

 

[Oklahomahawk]

NO IT'S NOT STEALING IT'S TOTALLY LEGAL!!!

Hence my "license to steal" comment.

 

[zitothebrave]

Police, roads, and fire departments are done at the local and state levels. Military is a federal function, and can of course be funded without income taxes. Again, income taxes have only been around for 100 years... and yet we managed to have roads, bridges, and military before then.

But the rich are leaving. See this article as an example

And don't even get me started on businesses leaving, either directly or via tax inversion.

The issue is, we're no longer getting a good return on our tax investment.

Like an major corporation, the US government has gotten too big and too inefficient to do just about anything well.

I don't recall us having an interstate highway 100 years ago. Or any other number of massive infrastructure improvements done by the federal government.

The Rich aren't leaving, a handful may be, but who cares if a few leave. Hopefully they enjoy their life in another country and the lack of benefits of the American system, or they're still gonna be paying taxes and not getting other benefits. Dont' give a ****.

Businesses aren't leaving. Because the tax and labor rates in 3rd world countries are getting too expensive to justify the output oftentimes.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

I don't recall us having an interstate highway 100 years ago. Or any other number of massive infrastructure improvements done by the federal government.

The Rich aren't leaving, a handful may be, but who cares if a few leave. Hopefully they enjoy their life in another country and the lack of benefits of the American system, or they're still gonna be paying taxes and not getting other benefits. Dont' give a ****.

Businesses aren't leaving. Because the tax and labor rates in 3rd world countries are getting too expensive to justify the output oftentimes.

The rich aren't going anywhere no matter who gets elected. Most of them are decent enough people, the whiny little bitches you see/hear on TV just say stuff like that because the Faux/Talk Radio crowd bought into them being a martyr group. If they tried the stuff they get away with here in most overseas countries they'd find themselves up poopie creek and they wouldn't have the American Goebbels Media Brigade to cover for them over there. People would see them for what they really are.

 

[Julio3000]

Police, roads, and fire departments are done at the local and state levels. Military is a federal function, and can of course be funded without income taxes. Again, income taxes have only been around for 100 years... and yet we managed to have roads, bridges, and military before then.

But the rich are leaving. See this article as an example

And don't even get me started on businesses leaving, either directly or via tax inversion.

The issue is, we're no longer getting a good return on our tax investment.

Like an major corporation, the US government has gotten too big and too inefficient to do just about anything well.

I'm not sure where you live, but roads and infrastructure are surely as hell not done at the local and state level, or not entirely. Generally, the poorer the state, the more fed dollars (proportionally) they get for roads. Ironically enough, this means that the states in the super-conservative south and the rugged-individualist-libertarian west get the most. States also get billions in assistance for law enforcement and first responders.

 

[The Tariff King]

I'm not sure where you live, but roads and infrastructure are surely as hell not done at the local and state level, or not entirely. Generally, the poorer the state, the more fed dollars (proportionally) they get for roads. Ironically enough, this means that the states in the super-conservative south and the rugged-individualist-libertarian west get the most. States also get billions in assistance for law enforcement and first responders.

I hate driving through your state no-offense. Going from Savannah to Jasper County is brutal. Avoiding potholes is like a soldier avoiding mines in the field. They're everywhere. Who maintains I-95 there? The state or Feds? Because your portion of I-95 is worse than Georgia's.

 

[zitothebrave]

I'm not sure where you live, but roads and infrastructure are surely as hell not done at the local and state level, or not entirely. Generally, the poorer the state, the more fed dollars (proportionally) they get for roads. Ironically enough, this means that the states in the super-conservative south and the rugged-individualist-libertarian west get the most. States also get billions in assistance for law enforcement and first responders.

Shhh. Stop with your facts. Everyone knows that the rich alone went around and developed our nations infrastructure without any federal aid.

 

[sturg33]

Friendly reminder

You guys act like if it wasn't for the government, we wouldn't be able to cross the street. I mean, the private sector invent ways to fly a ****ing airplane but they could have never figured out how to build a interstate road!

 

[sturg33]

Said much more succinctly than I have done:

“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”

Dr. Adrian Rodgers - 1931

 

[zitothebrave]

You guys act like if it wasn't for the government, we wouldn't be able to cross the street. I mean, the private sector invent ways to fly a ****ing airplane but they could have never figured out how to build a interstate road!

The government created the intercontinental railroad.

Seriously your ignorance on this topic is sad. If you've ever lived in an rural area and had electricity and a telephone, you can thank the government's investment in infrastructure because the telecoms wouldn't invest any money to get people service if it's not monetarily sound.

 

[sturg33]

I didn't say the government didn't create the railroad... I said we had one without the need for income taxes.

I've never argued there's no need for government.

By the way, you're answer above was unclear... Do I own my money or do I not? If I don't, what the heck do I own? Or does the government have a right to all of it

 

[Julio3000]

I hate driving through your state no-offense. Going from Savannah to Jasper County is brutal. Avoiding potholes is like a soldier avoiding mines in the field. They're everywhere. Who maintains I-95 there? The state or Feds? Because your portion of I-95 is worse than Georgia's.

Oh, our roads are notoriously horrible. It's the first thing the Yankee transplants complain about.

 

[Julio3000]

Friendly reminder

You guys act like if it wasn't for the government, we wouldn't be able to cross the street. I mean, the private sector invent ways to fly a ****ing airplane but they could have never figured out how to build a interstate road!

Yeah, if only we could return to the days of sweatshops and black-lung.

 

[The Tariff King]

Yeah, if only we could return to the days of sweatshops and black-lung.

I've now figured out which era to return to that Trump wants to Make America Great Again.

 

[sturg33]

Yeah, if only we could return to the days of sweatshops and black-lung.

Ahh yes... because the majority of our federal taxes goes towards that.

If you ignore social security, medicare, medicaid, defense, interest on our massive debt, and a host of every other thing you can think of, then yeah - thank God for our government!!!

I have learned something though... without our $4T annual budget, that we somehow can't manage to balance... we'd all be living like 3rd world peasants.

But I still would like clarity on if you all believe I own the money I earn...

 

[chop2chip]

Thank you for clarifying this.

How is it when you go on these financial rants, that you always fail to mention that the market always seemingly adjusts to whatever the median income is?

So it wouldn't matter if you were taxed at 30% or 20%, the market for everything adjusts to make it feasible for you to afford. You contend that raising the minimum wage only raises prices to keep in proportion to the wage hikes, but have you ever realized that if you just lowered taxes, that the market would raise prices to adjust for the spending power of the populace that increases the demand?

The issue with raising taxes is you are raising the price of something, somewhere. Direct or indirect. If you raise income taxes, then the cost of labor goes up, more labor goes underground/overseas, etc. Raise it on the poor, then the cost of American goods increases and struggle even more to compete with foreign imports. Raise taxes on the wealthy, then we see less investment in the US. Raise taxes on corporations, companies migrate their IP to foreign jurisdictions like the UK, Singapore, Ireland, and the Caymans so they can "legally" allocate profits out of the US.

France, for example, was forced to repeal their 75% "super tax" on millionaires because thousands of wealthy Frenchmen were leaving the country. Money always goes to where it's best treated.

Now, you can say that median income will shift and nominal prices of goods will probably drop, which is true. But the economy is going to produce less of something. That's the trade off.