stpeteirish
Called Up to the Major Leagues
No, that's the deal we make at the deadline. (only half joking)
Hoping for good spring for Danny, then maybe someone will want him.
Second Guessers Special: Unfilled Off-Season Wish List
- Thread starter nsacpi
- Start date
No, that's the deal we make at the deadline. (only half joking)
Hoping for good spring for Danny, then maybe someone will want him.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
LMAO "15 game winner" hahaha
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I cannot comprehend this sentiment. We would have to give up a ton of young, cheap talent, and then HOPEFULLY sign Price for 20 mil/year. The Rays only make deals they clearly win, we'd sacrifice so much to get him. I think it would end up being an awful trade because there's no way we can sign him long-term, and we have a lot of high upside pitching already. It makes no sense for a team in our bracket to trade a crap ton of talent for a guy that we won't re-sign. Especially when we have a lot of pitching already. It's unfathomably dumb to me.
It's like people want the Tex deal again. Stop it.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Aoki is not a 4th OFer.
Absolutely none whatsoever.
Absolute worst case scenario is that the organization winds up paying "market value" for a well above average player IN HIS PRIME during the second half of the deal. Even given the extremely unlikely situation that Freddie never gets any better than he currently is, that still won't be a bad deal when you project what revenues will look like 4 years from now.
AUTiger7222
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Yep. The Rays don't make bad trades. We weren't getting Price for a steal like we did when we got Huddy in his prime. Also the cost of what it would take to sign Price on top of the boat load of elite prospects would have just been far too much. On the other hand I would have gladly done it for Chris Sale who has many more years of team control left.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Markakis is a bit of a cautionary tale regarding giving out these kinds of contracts. It hasn't been a disaster for the Orioles, but certainly a disappointment. Starling Castro might turn out the same way for the Cubs. I like the deal with Freeman, but it isn't risk free.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Yeah, people who advocate those deals often make the assumption that a player like Price would then sign a below market deal with the Bravos. They usually don't spell out the exact nature of that assumption and when they do it tends to be pretty wildly unrealistic.
I have droned on and on about improving 2B, so obviously I feel that should have been addressed. I am probably not as high on TLS as I should be, so hopefully starting the year with Uggla and then letting TLS come in when Uggla plays himself out of the lineup was the best move in terms of total organizational value. I still think Wren will be looking to fix 2B at the trade deadline though.
I hate the Gavin Floyd signing. I see no point in bringing in a guy that won't pitch for half the year. What is the plan? Move Wood or Beachy to the BP when/if Floyd is ready? Won't Venters be ready for the BP about that time as well? Wouldn't it have made a ton more sense to sign a pitcher who was healthy NOW, let Wood start as the 2nd LHer in the BP, then move Wood to the rotation when Venters is ready to go back to the BP? I just don't see the logic in this signing. Maybe they hope he bounces back so they can offer him a qualifying offer and get a draft pick when he leaves?
The Freeman deal is a risk, but it is a risk that needed to be taken. I imagine the worst case scenario is Freeman produces at a 800-850 OPS and "earns" his money over the course if the deal. He is young and massive, so it isn't unreasonable to expect his power to take another step forward making him a 900+ OPS guy with 30+ HRs every year. He also has all the intangibles teams look for as a "face of the franchise player", so I think the signing will turn out fine (or at least not an albatross).
I also think Wren would do well to pick up one of the remaining arms on the FA market at half price. A starter might be nice (and likely too expensive), but certainly the BP can use another solid arm.
I hate the Gavin Floyd signing. I see no point in bringing in a guy that won't pitch for half the year. What is the plan? Move Wood or Beachy to the BP when/if Floyd is ready? Won't Venters be ready for the BP about that time as well? Wouldn't it have made a ton more sense to sign a pitcher who was healthy NOW, let Wood start as the 2nd LHer in the BP, then move Wood to the rotation when Venters is ready to go back to the BP? I just don't see the logic in this signing. Maybe they hope he bounces back so they can offer him a qualifying offer and get a draft pick when he leaves?
The Freeman deal is a risk, but it is a risk that needed to be taken. I imagine the worst case scenario is Freeman produces at a 800-850 OPS and "earns" his money over the course if the deal. He is young and massive, so it isn't unreasonable to expect his power to take another step forward making him a 900+ OPS guy with 30+ HRs every year. He also has all the intangibles teams look for as a "face of the franchise player", so I think the signing will turn out fine (or at least not an albatross).
I also think Wren would do well to pick up one of the remaining arms on the FA market at half price. A starter might be nice (and likely too expensive), but certainly the BP can use another solid arm.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
The Royals gave up Will Smith who I doubt has ever even made the Royals top 20 prospects. Smith is under control for 5 more years but his ceiling is probably that of a setup man. I would have offered Hale and Schafer. As thin as the Brewers pitching is, specifically starting pitching, I would take Hale who looks to me like a cheap #4/5 starter over a good reliever. Plus they get Schafer back who replaces Aoki as 4th outfielder.
For those of you who loathe strikeouts Aoki struck out 40 times in 600 at bats. BJ struck out 151 times in 300 at bats. Aoki hasnt even struck out 100 times in his career spanning over 1100 at bats. This is the kind of guy we needed to balance out the sluggers on the team.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
It would have fullfilled both. The rotation is too young and weak overall. I'm afraid Freddy Garcia is going to be on the mound as a starter far too much in '14. Kinda like Jorge Campillo was in '07 I believe.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
It would of cost at a minimum something like Sims, Wood, Cabrera, Peraza, and maybe one more.
That along with the contract of 20 mil per year at a MINIMUM for 5-7 years.
Tex 2.0
Stay away.
AUTiger7222
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I'm sick of hearing about how the Braves starting rotation can't get the job done. That's utter BS! World Series rotations of the past few years.
2008 Rays
James Shields
Andy Sonnanstine
Matt Garza
Edwin Jackson
Scott Kazmir
Of that group, James Shields was the only one to throw 200 innings. Sonnanstine and Jackson both had ERA's well over 4 while giving up more hits than innings pitched. Only one of those guys had an ERA below 3.50 and that was Kazmir, who barely made the cut, at 3.49. That team didn't win the World Series but they at least made it there and won 97 games in the regular season. The Braves rotation of Medlen, Minor, Teheran, Beachy and then whoever the 5 is, is better than that Rays rotation. Now let's take a look at rotation of the team that beat them that year.
2008 Phillies
Cole Hamels
Jamie Moyer
Brett Meyers
Kyle Kendrick
Joe Blanton
Adam Eaton
Meyers, Kendrick, Blanton and Eaton all had ERA's well over 4, Kendrick and Eaton were over 5. Moyer, Meyers, Kendrick and Eaton all gave up more hits than innings pitched. Cole Hamels was the only starter they had post an ERA under 3.50 and he was at 3.09. Again, the Braves rotation is better than that one and they won the World Series. I was going to break down some other rotations but I think I made my point.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Whats your definition of a 4th outfielder? I envision Aoki taking most of BJ's at bats if BJ continues to suck so he probably would not end up being the 4th outfielder, BJ would.
JohnAdcox
Brian Jordan's New BFF
I think the "plan," such as it is, to to assume that by the time Floyd is ready and effective, someone will be injured, struggling, etc. He's also a way to limit innings on young arms you want strong in the last weeks. He's depth, albeit arguably over-priced depth. But no way do they make a qualifying offer. Even if he bounces back, and he very well may, he doesn't turn down $14m+. Not even for a multi-year.
For one, I am ok with giving up "a ton of cheap, young talent." I perfectly understand what we will give up and that we likely won't be able to resign Price. But our window for winning a WS with this current team is very narrow. In the next 2-3 yrs, at least 2 of Heyward, Kimbrel, Medlen, and J-Up will be gone.
Unless our payroll increases, we are not likely to see a team this talented for quite some time. Even if you factor in the progression of our own prospects to replace players we may lose (such as Medlen or Minor being repalced by Wood, Sims, Hursch, etc), it takes a while for these prospects to reach their peak. In the next 2 yrs we will have J-Up, Freeman, Gattis, Heyward, Minor, Medlen, all in their prime at the same time. All I'm saying is, strike while the iron is hot. This is our best chance to win a WS and I personally would like to see us go all out while we we have the opportunity.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
So you want to gut the farm for a shot at a WS?
When the playoffs are a crapshoot, thank god you aren't GM.
I keep hearing this crapshoot business but we haven't reached the 2nd round of the playoffs for over a decade, despite reaching the playoffs over half the time during that span. Seems to me like we have been playing against loaded dice most of the time. Just b/c you have a competitive team doesn't mean you are built for a deep playoff run. Not to mention, it's hardly a guarantee we reach the playoffs.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Last few WS winners.
10 Giants- Who thought they'd win it all?
11 Cards- Lucky to get in the first place.
12 Giants- Same.
13 Sox- From worst to first.
Yes, playoffs are a crapshoot.
Btw, only players we'd hurt losing in 2 years is JUp/JH.
Sims and someone else on the farm can replace Medlen, Beachy, etc.
Kimbrel would hurt but there are options.
But sure, let's trade the farm for Price, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!