Second Guessers Special: Unfilled Off-Season Wish List

AUTiger7222 said:
So? It only takes 1 guy getting hot and putting a team on his back to have a huge impact on a playoff series. Freeman, Heyward or Justin are completely capable of doing that. We say opening week last year when Justin hit 6 homeruns or how many it was, what he's capable of doing when he gets hot.. We saw in 2011 when Freeman hit 4 homeruns and had a few other hits in a 4 game sweep of the Rockies right before the ASG of what he's able to do in a week when he gets hot. We've seen Heyward carry the Braves when he's been hot.
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Sure. But who will be our David Eckstein.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
I'm just going to post this again since it got totally ignored the first time. You don't need dominating starting pitching to win the World Series or to even make it to the World Series. The Braves had dominate starting pitching for a decade and won 1 World Series with it. The 2014 Braves starting pitching staff is better than either of the teams that were in the 2008 World Series.
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The Braves reached 5 WS however with that dominant pitching. The last time we reached the 2nd round of the playoffs we still had the big 3 on the team (Smoltz was hurt, but still here).

There is no denying that some teams are simply built better for deep playoff runs.
 
Carp said:
The Braves reached 5 WS however with that dominant pitching. The last time we reached the 2nd round of the playoffs we still had the big 3 on the team (Smoltz was hurt, but still here).

There is no denying that some teams are simply built better for deep playoff runs.
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Some, yes, but for the most part its a crapshoot.
 
Carp said:
The Braves reached 5 WS however with that dominant pitching. The last time we reached the 2nd round of the playoffs we still had the big 3 on the team (Smoltz was hurt, but still here).

There is no denying that some teams are simply built better for deep playoff runs.
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2 of those World Series trips were pre-wild card where regular season performance was way more important.
 
zitothebrave said:
2 of those World Series trips were pre-wild card where regular season performance was way more important.
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Exactly. There has been no team suffer more from the advent of the Wild Card than the Atlanta Braves franchise. Most of the teams that have beaten the Braves in the playoffs were WC teams. Regular season doesn't mean nearly as much as it used to because of the WC. What was always a huge strength for the Braves, a stud rotation that could go 4 deep, wasn't an advantage to them anymore since you could dominate a series with 2 such pitchers. That's the reason the Braves lost to the Diamondbacks in 2001 and the Cubs in 2003. In 2001, Johnson and Schilling, were better together than Maddux, Glavine and Millwood were as a trio. Smoltz was in the bullpen in 2001. In 2003, Wood and Prior, were better together than Maddux, Hampton and Ortiz were as a trio.
 
Only unfulfilled item on the wish list was that it really seemed like there would be more of an effort to obtain a higher end starter. It was expected (at least by me) that Hudson was gone, then everybody knew that Maholm was done and McCann was going to get a pay-off. Then compensating for salary increases for the arb-eligible players, there might've been a few bucks left. My thinking was that they might go for Garza, since there'd been previous interest. They'd tried to trade for Lohse before, so there was reason to think that they might re-visit talks. Interesting coincidence for both, because it looks like the Brewers art trying to present themselves as serious.

Any way, the off season ended on a high note with the Freeman extension. Even the Heywood 2 year deal is OK with me. He's got to be healthy for a full season and finally put it all together. Then, the two sides can talk longer term.
 
Carp said:
06 cards had a player in his prime who will (likely) go down as of 1 of the 10 best RH hitters in the history of the game. That kind of helps. If we had a Miguel Cabrera or Mike Trout on this team, it would be different.
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LOL having Mike Trout would make it different, huh?

How did having Mike Trout work out for the Angels the last two years?

We are a much better team than Mike Trout's team because of how much depth and young talent we have emerging.

We have a lot of young talent. So much right now. I can't believe people can even complain looking at all the young guys we have. Why do some here seem to think one of young players can't emerge. They don't even think they can emerge in a playoff series, much less a whole season. Why is that though? Honestly, why can't you look at the positives this team has right now? Look at the seasons the Red Sox got out of some of their guys last year. There is no reason the Braves can't have things go their way.

And to those who harp on the "Braves aren't a winning organization" thing, I find that to be such a lame argument. The reality is, franchises go through cold streaks. This team is different from last year's team, and is certainly different from the team of 5 years ago. We have a good crop of young talent, likely enter the season with yet again the youngest lineup in the league (even with a lot of the same guys in it), and due to some of the talent we have and the steps forward they took last year. It was Minor's 2nd full season and he took a big step forward. Teheran looked great. It's not like his FIP was 4.5 and he got lucky. He's 23. A lot of teams would like to be in our position right now. I think there's a lot of reason for optimism, and I wouldn't say I'm always optimistic about my sports.
 
Knucksie said:
Only unfulfilled item on the wish list was that it really seemed like there would be more of an effort to obtain a higher end starter. It was expected (at least by me) that Hudson was gone, then everybody knew that Maholm was done and McCann was going to get a pay-off. Then compensating for salary increases for the arb-eligible players, there might've been a few bucks left. My thinking was that they might go for Garza, since there'd been previous interest. They'd tried to trade for Lohse before, so there was reason to think that they might re-visit talks. Interesting coincidence for both, because it looks like the Brewers art trying to present themselves as serious.

Any way, the off season ended on a high note with the Freeman extension. Even the Heywood 2 year deal is OK with me. He's got to be healthy for a full season and finally put it all together. Then, the two sides can talk longer term.
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You think Hudson, Garza, and Lohse are "high-end" starters?
All 5 guys in our rotation have either equal or better ceilings, especially for the future.
 
SAV:

Small favor. Could you please fix the Ignore List feature, so that that those on it are not able to trigger Notifications?

Having to deal with quotes taken out of context, or obnoxious little ****s trolling for mindless internet debates, is disruptive to an otherwise enjoyable online experience.

Thanks!
 
Garza is not even a high-end starter. A majority of our rotation is better than him.
Getting David Price would have made no sense for this team.
 
yeezus said:
Garza is not even a high-end starter. A majority of our rotation is better than him.
Getting David Price would have made no sense for this team.
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Garza at 4/52 is pretty fair.

I dont disagree though.
 
yeezus said:
LOL having Mike Trout would make it different, huh?
How did having Mike Trout work out for the Angels the last two years?
We are a much better team than Mike Trout's team because of how much depth and young talent we have emerging.
We have a lot of young talent. So much right now. I can't believe people can even complain looking at all the young guys we have. Why do some here seem to think one of young players can't emerge. They don't even think they can emerge in a playoff series, much less a whole season. Why is that though? Honestly, why can't you look at the positives this team has right now? Look at the seasons the Red Sox got out of some of their guys last year. There is no reason the Braves can't have things go their way.

And to those who harp on the "Braves aren't a winning organization" thing, I find that to be such a lame argument. The reality is, franchises go through cold streaks. This team is different from last year's team, and is certainly different from the team of 5 years ago. We have a good crop of young talent, likely enter the season with yet again the youngest lineup in the league (even with a lot of the same guys in it), and due to some of the talent we have and the steps forward they took last year. It was Minor's 2nd full season and he took a big step forward. Teheran looked great. It's not like his FIP was 4.5 and he got lucky. He's 23. A lot of teams would like to be in our position right now. I think there's a lot of reason for optimism, and I wouldn't say I'm always optimistic about my sports.
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Well said.

Only moves i would of done is trade for Fister at that price.

And keep Mac since im not 100% sold on Gattis but i wouldnt sign Mac for THAT much.
 
yeezus said:
Garza is not even a high-end starter. A majority of our rotation is better than him.
Getting David Price would have made no sense for this team.
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Price would have made sense if we acquired him in a trade and extended him fairly soon after. Ala Dan Uggla transaction.

Without question Price is an upgrade over everyone in the rotation though. Who knows what it would have taken to get him here though. My guess is JT at a minimum.
 
Heyward said:
Well said.

Only moves i would of done is trade for Fister at that price.

And keep Mac since im not 100% sold on Gattis but i wouldnt sign Mac for THAT much.
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And you dont' know if we had the prospects that would have gotten Fister at that price.
 
Heyward said:
It would of been something like Hale, Avilan, Pastor, and Cabrera.
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If they value those prospects the same. You can't just plug in similar graded prospects and say we could have made the trade. Remember the Hudson trade all those years ago? Without Dan Meyer and the A's valuation of him we probably don't make a trade for Huddy.
 
I was all for trading for Fistet as he struck me as a younger (cheapest) version of Hudson but I looked up his stats and 2013 was his first 200 inning season. That changed my opinion.

I think the nats up their offer if the braves went after Fister so its hard to say what it would have taken for the braves.
 
zitothebrave said:
If they value those prospects the same. You can't just plug in similar graded prospects and say we could have made the trade. Remember the Hudson trade all those years ago? Without Dan Meyer and the A's valuation of him we probably don't make a trade for Huddy.
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You're right, but I think everyone that saw Meyer pitch, knew that he was nothing special and that the A's heavily wanting him didn't seem to make a lot of sense. That Huddy deal was such a steal. Did Charles Thomas ever play in the majors again after the Braves traded him to the A's? At least Meyer was able to hang on for a white as a LOOGY but he was never the top end starting pitcher the A's thought he would be. And Juan Cruz was a failed starter who had turned into a pretty good reliever. That trade has to go down as one of the top 10 most lopsided trades of the last half century.
 
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