Second ('Third') Trump Presidency Thread

Where is Gavin Newsom demanding an audit of the billions of money lit on fire towards projects that have yield negative results?

I dont understand why 57 isnt more upset about this than sturg33. The people you pretend to care about most are the ones not getting the money spent for them
 
sturg33 said:
Wonderful. That was 10 years ago for a scam involving $4M.

it also happens to be the criminals were white.
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you tell me.
What legislative candidates in Texas are campaigning on waste and "fraud".
I see none where I live, and very few succeeding anywhere.

Executive candidates words are not to be taken seriously

Tilting at windmills is according to Cervantes delusional
 
sturg33 said:
Where is Gavin Newsom demanding an audit of the billions of money lit on fire towards projects that have yield negative results?

I dont understand why 57 isnt more upset about this than sturg33. The people you pretend to care about most are the ones not getting the money spent for them
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i dont live in California or follow Newsome
When and if he becomes a national candidate ...
otherwise i might as well take seriously the words of Kid Rock
 
Peter Coyote

4h
Peter Coyote

I’m going to make a Prophecy and I hope I’m wrong. It is that the Democrats will take power, will win both houses and will not do any of the following: they will not raise the tax rates on billionaires, they will not cut back Trump‘s tax breaks for billionaires, they will not pull the department of justice out of the executive branch, They will not raise the minimum wage, they will not pass universal healthcare,. I say this because the Democratic Party as it’s presently constituted Is basically the corporate party. They represent the kind of order and PLANNING that the corporate sector likes. But it is the corporate sector they serve, and all of their decisions have to be made according to the laws of business that serve the corporate sector. And the reason that this is the case and is not the case in the Western Europeans and Scandinavian Parliament is because we have not protected our political system from the power of money. And until we begin Insisting on full federal funding of elections, no private contributions, no corporate contributions, (because after all our corporation only exists to make profits for its shareholders), Until we insist on universal voting of legal inhabitants, and begin leading a week to get voting done so that it’s easy, we will never create a system where legislators can vote their consciences and their best thoughts without having to compromise with the interest of money. So I don’t want to be a bummer, but I’m 84 years old and I’ve been involved with politics Since I was 14. And I’ve watched the same seesaw back-and-forth between the Republicans and the Democrats, the handwringing, the prayers are with you – it’s 2026 and there’s still not a law against lynching. When are people going to wake up that unregulated capitalism or neoliberalism is not a system that creates a stable culture, healthy work, good healthcare. We need to be asking for what we want and we keep asking for charismatic figures instead of policies that really puts citizens first. . I hope I’m wrong
/////////////////////////////

Or Peter Coyote
 
57Brave said:
you tell me.
What legislative candidates in Texas are campaigning on waste and "fraud".
I see none where I live, and very few succeeding anywhere.

Executive candidates words are not to be taken seriously

Tilting at windmills is according to Cervantes delusional
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Just say you also dont care about it and we can move on

There is no incentive for D politicians to change because their voters are 57
 
57Brave said:
WWJD ?
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"WWJD?" Cute. But you're an atheist. You don't believe Jesus was divine, you don't believe the Bible is true, and you don't accept religious authority on anything else. So why do you try to use my morals against me? You reject Christianity 364 days a year until it conveniently backs your open-borders welfare stance, then it's 'WWJD?' Pick a lane.

Even if we humor your biblical cosplay for a second: Jesus never once told the Roman government to tax citizens and hand out free stuff to non-citizens. He never lobbied Caesar for expanded welfare programs. He preached personal, voluntary charity - sell your cloak and give to the poor yourself, help the stranger you personally encounter (Good Samaritan was one guy on the road, not a federal entitlement program). He fed the 5,000 with a miracle, not by raiding the treasury. The early church helped widows, orphans, and travelers out of their own pockets, not by forcing non-believers to fund it at gunpoint.

The actual social contract in a secular democracy is simple: Citizens pay taxes because they consent (via voting and the Constitution) to a system for themselves and their posterity. Non-citizens aren't part of that contract. They didn't fight in our wars, didn't build the infrastructure, didn't vote for the welfare state. Giving them automatic access to citizen-funded benefits is just theft by ballot. Take money from people who did consent and giving it to people who didn't. Private charity, churches, and voluntary organizations can (and do) help foreigners all day long. That's the Jesus model if you're into that. Government welfare isn't.

If your real argument is 'compassion requires open taxpayer-funded spigot for anyone who crosses the border,' then own the secular version: unlimited incentives create unlimited migration, bankrupt the system, and punish the actual citizens who built it. Jesus helped individuals. He didn't destroy the village to save the stranger.

I ask again: why should a non citizen be given free lunch?

If you want to invoke Jesus, then we can pivot the conversation to abortion and ensure you're consistent in your newfound love of Christ
 
sturg33 said:
Why should a non citizen get free lunch?
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Who's saying they aren't.

Let's say Jose and Gabrielle come to America on a cisa, they have a kid, they keep up their good standing as a non-citizen worker but their kid is. The parents technically get the welfare benefit even though it;s benefiting an American citizen. That's one simple logical example to how a non-citizen can get a benefit but the benefit actually benefits an American citizen.
 
zitothebrave said:
Who's saying they aren't.

Let's say Jose and Gabrielle come to America on a cisa, they have a kid, they keep up their good standing as a non-citizen worker but their kid is. The parents technically get the welfare benefit even though it;s benefiting an American citizen. That's one simple logical example to how a non-citizen can get a benefit but the benefit actually benefits an American citizen.
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That is a very niche example

The data i posted is non citizens are getting 2x wellfare benfits than citizens.

Do you think that is from anchor babies getting free lunch?

I really dont get why youre bending over backwards trying to make an impossible argument. If your argument is "they are here, and we must help"... then make that argument. Stop trying to create delusions as justifications
 
sturg33 said:
That is a very niche example

The data i posted is non citizens are getting 2x wellfare benfits than citizens.

Do you think that is from anchor babies getting free lunch?

I really dont get why youre bending over backwards trying to make an impossible argument. If your argument is "they are here, and we must help"... then make that argument. Stop trying to create delusions as justifications
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It's one of many ways. And that chart doesn't say they're getting 2x the benefits. It's based off percentage of a household.

There are an estimated 26 million naturalized US Citizens, 26 million non citizens per this report


Which doing some pencil math, us population estimate is 340 million. So even rounding up immigration heavily let's say there's about 280 million natural born US citizens vs. 60 million non-natural born citizens and non-citizens.

At an average household size of 3.2 people there's about 87.5 million natural citizen households, vs. 18.75 million foreign born households. Which would mean that about 10 million foreign born household get a form of welfare (which they consider EITC a welfare for this) while about 27 million natural born citizen households get some form of welfare.

May I suggest reading
cis.org

Welfare Use by Immigrants and the U.S.-Born, 2022

This analysis shows immigrant households are significantly more likely to receive benefits.
cis.org cis.org

Why Is Illegal Immigrant Welfare Use So High? The high use of welfare by illegal immigrant-headed households may seem implausible. However, there are several things to consider: First, more than half of all illegal immigrant households have one or more U.S.-born children.15 Second, many states offer Medicaid directly to illegal immigrants. For example, a dozen states offer Medicaid to all low-income children regardless of immigration status and even more states provide it to all low-income pregnant women, again without regard to legal status. A few states go beyond this and offer Medicaid to other adult illegal immigrants.16 Third, illegal immigrant children have the same eligibility as citizens for free subsidized school lunch/breakfast and WIC under federal law. Fourth, six states also offer SNAP benefits to illegal immigrants under limited circumstances.17 Fifth, several million illegal immigrants have work authorization, which provides a Social Security number and with it EITC eligibility. This includes those with DACA, TPS, many applicants for asylum, and those granted suspension of deportation and withholding of removal.18 Sixth, prior research indicates that the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants have no education beyond high school and, as a result, a very large share of illegal immigrants have incomes low enough to qualify for welfare.19 Finally, it should be remembered that the job of the those in the welfare bureaucracy is to help low-income residents receive the welfare for which they are eligible.
 
zitothebrave said:
Who's saying they aren't.

Let's say Jose and Gabrielle come to America on a cisa, they have a kid, they keep up their good standing as a non-citizen worker but their kid is. The parents technically get the welfare benefit even though it;s benefiting an American citizen. That's one simple logical example to how a non-citizen can get a benefit but the benefit actually benefits an American citizen.
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I think even Sturg would concede free school lunches if 90% of the other "benefits" weren't included. And that's the problem we always see with states like California. They continually give non-US Citizens billions in free money, while actual Americans suffer.
 
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zitothebrave said:
It's one of many ways. And that chart doesn't say they're getting 2x the benefits. It's based off percentage of a household.

There are an estimated 26 million naturalized US Citizens, 26 million non citizens per this report


Which doing some pencil math, us population estimate is 340 million. So even rounding up immigration heavily let's say there's about 280 million natural born US citizens vs. 60 million non-natural born citizens and non-citizens.

At an average household size of 3.2 people there's about 87.5 million natural citizen households, vs. 18.75 million foreign born households. Which would mean that about 10 million foreign born household get a form of welfare (which they consider EITC a welfare for this) while about 27 million natural born citizen households get some form of welfare.

May I suggest reading
cis.org

Welfare Use by Immigrants and the U.S.-Born, 2022

This analysis shows immigrant households are significantly more likely to receive benefits.
cis.org cis.org

Why Is Illegal Immigrant Welfare Use So High? The high use of welfare by illegal immigrant-headed households may seem implausible. However, there are several things to consider: First, more than half of all illegal immigrant households have one or more U.S.-born children.15 Second, many states offer Medicaid directly to illegal immigrants. For example, a dozen states offer Medicaid to all low-income children regardless of immigration status and even more states provide it to all low-income pregnant women, again without regard to legal status. A few states go beyond this and offer Medicaid to other adult illegal immigrants.16 Third, illegal immigrant children have the same eligibility as citizens for free subsidized school lunch/breakfast and WIC under federal law. Fourth, six states also offer SNAP benefits to illegal immigrants under limited circumstances.17 Fifth, several million illegal immigrants have work authorization, which provides a Social Security number and with it EITC eligibility. This includes those with DACA, TPS, many applicants for asylum, and those granted suspension of deportation and withholding of removal.18 Sixth, prior research indicates that the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants have no education beyond high school and, as a result, a very large share of illegal immigrants have incomes low enough to qualify for welfare.19 Finally, it should be remembered that the job of the those in the welfare bureaucracy is to help low-income residents receive the welfare for which they are eligible.
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And herein lies the biggest problem with immigration, legal or illegal. Flooding our country with low educated, low skilled workers is an incredibly poor economic policy in 2026. And that's without mentioning increased crime and national security concerns.
 
Carp said:
And herein lies the biggest problem with immigration, legal or illegal. Flooding our country with low educated, low skilled workers is an incredibly poor economic policy in 2026. And that's without mentioning increased crime and national security concerns.
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Who's going to work the low skilled jobs? You willing to pay someone 20 an hour to pick berries in a field then pay 15 a pound for Strawberries? Or what really will happen is all our groceries will be imported.
 
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