Service Time

nsacpi

nsacpi

Expects Yuge Games
Given we are unlikely to contend this year should guys like Peraza, Bethancourt, Banuelos and Foltynewicz play in the majors. They all have options left. I say keep them in AAA all year.
 
can't we bring them up around the all star break and not lose a year?

If we want these guys to have big roles next year we need them to play in MLB this year IMO. Maybe we have to wait till roster expansion, not sure.

But I think Peraza needs more time. Bring him up at roster expansion.

For the pitchers, we want at least one of them in the rotation next year. I think they need to pitch.

I still think trading Minor happens at the deadline or next year's off season. So we have two rotation holes to fill.
 
Guys like Stults can fill in. There are two service time issues: time to free agency and time to arb eligibility including super 2 status. We should take steps to delay both for the four players I mentioned.
 
It can be tricky for sure. Like someone said, if we had left Heyward down we'd still have him this year. But then again, he gave us his best year as a rookie. I say bring up em, on the job training, figure it all out later.
 
As long as the farm doesn't crash and burn like it did the last two years it wony matter. Peraza should be up by midseason if he performs well in the minors this year. You get the feeling that a portion of the Braves organization thinks he could handle the majors right now.
 
I've always been of the opinion that you should run the best 25 men out there. If those players are among the best 25, then they should be on the club from day 1.

Bethancourt needs to be up with Gattis gone now. AJ isn't going to be an offensive juggernaut, so might as well go with the premiere defender.

If Peraza has a great spring I would start him from day 1. But my assumption is that Callaspo will win the the starting 2b job and the Braves will try to delay Peraza's clock while getting him some extra development.

Final spot in the rotation needs to go the best pitcher, plain and simple. If that's Wandy or Stults or whomever, then fine. But don't send down Folty or ManBan just to delay their time. If they prove the best pitcher, then put them in the rotation.
 
Eyeman said:
I say bring up em, on the job training, figure it all out later.
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I tend to agree. Out of all of the guys that nsacpi mentioned, Peraza most definitely needs additional seasoning in the Minor Leagues -- hopefully the organization will run him out at a few different positions, and I think that's definitely the type of experimentation that you want to play with in a lower intensity environment. However, Bethancourt has little left to prove in AAA, and if the team really considers him a long-term option at catcher then now is the best situation for him to prove his worth at the Major League level. In all likelihood, even if he morphs into a league average catcher, service time wouldn't be a prohibitive issue for the team in the years ahead. Banuelos and Folty are a mixed bag -- both are ready, capable, arms, but there's not much sense in rushing them given the availability of veteran arms also in the mix. That being said, if the team finds itself in a position to contend at any point in the season then I think they should be called up immediately.
 
nsacpi said:
Given we are unlikely to contend this year should guys like Peraza, Bethancourt, Banuelos and Foltynewicz play in the majors. They all have options left. I say keep them in AAA all year.
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I think all of them will be on the team by the July trading deadline.
 
Peraza and ManBan have 0 days service time and neither are realistically ready for MLB by opening day, so should be easy choice to keep them down til at least mid-June (to avoid super two).

Here is the current service time for some of the others with at least one option:

Vizcaino: 2 years, 77 days
Bethancourt: 0 years, 72 days
Folty: 0 years, 59 days
Jace: 0 years, 58 days

Hart and Fredi have both said Bethancourt won't go to AAA. They'd have to keep him down for quite a while in impact his FA or super two status.

I'm curious to see how they handle Vizcaino, Folty, and Jace. The # of days they've already accumulated makes it tougher to game their service clocks. Would need to keep them down most of the year. Folty is the most valuable asset of the three, so keeping him down until September call-up time would suit me fine.
 
Bethancourt and Peterson have too much time in the majors, they need ML experience to continue their decelopment. AAA doesn't prepare you for facing top ML pitching.

Peraza should not come up till June to avoid super 2 status. Folty might get sent back to AAA for a while even if be makes the opening day roster. Prospects don't always come up and stay up. Delaying service time is a great idea but we don't need to go over board on it. Players Like Bethancourt probably need a full 2 years of experience to be ready for 2017. Bethancourt has always started slow at every level buy eventually he g wet s it and becomes a device be hitter. Hopefully it's the same in the majors and not a Scott Thorman thing.
 
Peraza is the main one you want to keep down for service clock purposes IMO. Plus it has already been decided on Bethancourt while Man-Ban and Forty situation should take care of itself (I don't see either one making the team). Further, I don't like agreeing with Bill Shanks if I can help it. But not long ago when I was bored I checked out his forum and saw a thread where PD was trying to push the idea of Peraza starting for us this year. Shanks responded with a good point for a change: "Well it is absolutely idiotic to allow that kid to start his clock when it is not necessary. He might have been one of the best 25 players last year, but that doesn't mean he was ready to play. He needs more time in Triple-A, just to make sure he is ready. And yes, if that allows him to be Braves property for an extra year, so be it. That is for the good of the organization."

Again, I don't like echoing Bill Shanks but in this case he makes a solid point IMO.
 
Russ2dollas said:
can't we bring them up around the all star break and not lose a year?
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We lose an option year if we option them down anytime this year. Arbitration and free agency is based on service time, which is measured in days on the roster. Bringing someone up mid-season would only cost half a year of service time for FA and arby eligibility.
 
Russ2dollas said:
can't we bring them up around the all star break and not lose a year?

If we want these guys to have big roles next year we need them to play in MLB this year IMO. Maybe we have to wait till roster expansion, not sure.

But I think Peraza needs more time. Bring him up at roster expansion.

For the pitchers, we want at least one of them in the rotation next year. I think they need to pitch.

I still think trading Minor happens at the deadline or next year's off season. So we have two rotation holes to fill.
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Here's the pie-in-the-sky hope (at least for me)...

1.) Wandy and Stults somehow stay healthy all year.

2.) Minor has a strong first half while Foltynewicz and Banuelos continue to refine things at Gwinnett. Hopefully turn him into something like Aaron Judge and Luis Torrens from the Yankees if they're close enough to contention to be looking for Pitching. Stults, Martin, or Hursh (or another signing) keeps us from having to call either up.

3.) Seitzer's able to help, and B. J., Johnson, and Callaspo are solid. Someone comes calling for one or more of them when injuries hit (even if we have to pay down some of B. J. or Johnson's contracts) and we get a long look at Peterson at 2B and Perez in CF.

You're then in the position to allow 2016 to be the "on the job training" for Folty, Banuelos, and Peraza. If we were able to move Johnson and sign Olivera, you've still got plenty of money to bid on one of the big OF bats next winter (preferably Upton or Cespedes to hit behind Freeman) and 2016 would become the "build the excitement" year before the curtain drops on the new digs.

A 2016 with a big bat signing for LF, the introduction of Peraza, and additions of Folty and Banuelos to the rotation should generate quite a bit of buzz heading into the new park.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I'm really excited to see Perez - I think he very well could wind up being a steal and could become a legitimate B. J. replacement in CF.
 
Not one legit prospect should play in Atlanta this year.

1. You don't want to start their clocks. The franchise is solid middle class (at best) when you discuss payroll and that is unlikely to change. The team isn't going to win so there is no intangible effects to be gained. You keep them down and let them beat up on inferior talent and gain as much confidence as you can and look to 2016 to break them in.

2. The Braves should be stoking the Majors and AAA with rebound candidates who have a ML history. These are guys who would have trade value if they rebounded to anywhere near their previous abilities but won't break the bank to sign. So far, Hart has done some of this, but not enough IMO.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Not one legit prospect should play in Atlanta this year.

1. You don't want to start their clocks. The franchise is solid middle class (at best) when you discuss payroll and that is unlikely to change. The team isn't going to win so there is no intangible effects to be gained. You keep them down and let them beat up on inferior talent and gain as much confidence as you can and look to 2016 to break them in.

2. The Braves should be stoking the Majors and AAA with rebound candidates who have a ML history. These are guys who would have trade value if they rebounded to anywhere near their previous abilities but won't break the bank to sign. So far, Hart has done some of this, but not enough IMO.
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I agree. I'd think the Braves agree except for Markakis signing....

I just think one of the new guys plays a big role this year. Hart will want to sell we're trying this year and he'll want to show off one of his toys. So I think around the all star break we'll see someone.

2016 as the one the job training year makes the most sense.
 
thethe said:
As long as the farm doesn't crash and burn like it did the last two years it wony matter. Peraza should be up by midseason if he performs well in the minors this year. You get the feeling that a portion of the Braves organization thinks he could handle the majors right now.
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It concerns me that if we call up too many prospects the farm system will start to lose the depth that Hart has worked so hard to build.
 
nsacpi said:
It concerns me that if we call up too many prospects the farm system will start to lose the depth that Hart has worked so hard to build.
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Don't worry. Now that one of the best scouts in the business is back after being chased away the farm will still have constant contributions even after call ups.
 
thethe said:
Don't worry. Now that one of the best scouts in the business is back after being chased away the farm will still have constant contributions even after call ups.
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I love how we're not allowed to speculate about value for our players but you're allowed to tell us with certainty things like this
 
I've never once said that you shouldn't speculate. You are confusing me with someone else. I think sometimes there is enough smoke where you can assume fire.
 
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