Shane Greene

[50PoundHead]

Marte would be nice. Just have to hope the Marlins fall out of it by then. Doesn't help that they are the only team with a positive run differential in the division right now. The whole division is a cluster **** at the moment.

One of my long time sayings is "You can't bet on promising young pitchers, but you really can't bet against them either." What is disappointing to me is that the Marlins appear to be doing a better job of getting their young pitchers fully prepared to pitch at the major league level better than the Braves are. I don't see the Marlins hanging in there all season. Their offense simply isn't good enough. But their pitching is pretty solid (albeit young) and after seeing Max Meyer and Jake Eder make the Mississippi Braves look like they were using balsa wood bats last week, there's more on the way.

 

[UNCBlue012]

Paging Starling Marte...you're needed in Atlanta sir.

Some form of Acuna RF - Freeman 1B - Ozuna LF - Albies 2B - Marte CF - Riley 3B - Swanson SS - Contreras C would be quite a good lineup.

 

[NYCBrave]

One of my long time sayings is "You can't bet on promising young pitchers, but you really can't bet against them either." What is disappointing to me is that the Marlins appear to be doing a better job of getting their young pitchers fully prepared to pitch at the major league level better than the Braves are. I don't see the Marlins hanging in there all season. Their offense simply isn't good enough. But their pitching is pretty solid (albeit young) and after seeing Max Meyer and Jake Eder make the Mississippi Braves look like they were using balsa wood bats last week, there's more on the way.

The Marlins are loaded with good pitching talent and you're right, it appears they know how to develop it. Just think, they were able to move Gallen to the D'Backs and not miss a step. There is alot more to come in their minors as well. But don't forget, they've also been drafting pretty high for what seems like forever. Last year broke their playoff drought. They've also seemingly had issues with developing hitters. They really need Brinson to work out or else the Yelich trade is going to look bad.

 

[clvclv]

One of my long time sayings is "You can't bet on promising young pitchers, but you really can't bet against them either." What is disappointing to me is that the Marlins appear to be doing a better job of getting their young pitchers fully prepared to pitch at the major league level better than the Braves are. I don't see the Marlins hanging in there all season. Their offense simply isn't good enough. But their pitching is pretty solid (albeit young) and after seeing Max Meyer and Jake Eder make the Mississippi Braves look like they were using balsa wood bats last week, there's more on the way.

They do appear to be doing a better job, but part of me wonders just how much of that has to do with drafting/signing/trading for pure ceiling vs. guys you think you can turn into MLB Pitchers.

What I mean is that the Braves seem to look for more well-rounded guys that have more advanced secondary offerings and longer track records than the types of kids that just have stuff that causes your jaw to drop. Not saying I have some special knowledge that one type will be more successful in the long run, but it would seem reasonable to me that if you bring in guys like the Marlins have that constantly SIT in the upper 90s (rather than occasionally touch them) and teach them the type of breaking ball/cutter and change that your development people have had success teaching that there's at least a fungible chance they turn out better. Folty, Wright, and Wilson have struggled since their fastballs are so straight, but the ones they usually throw that get pounded have tended to be thigh-high and 92-94 MPH. If they were constantly 96-98 at the top of the zone, how many fewer get turned around - even when they're straight?

It's part of the old-school guy in me, but it just feels like the Braves have lost that edge of "listen closely when I'm talking and I'll teach you what it takes to be successful" they had way back when Leo was in charge of the Pitchers. It appears that they feel like their "pitching gurus" can take whatever they're handed and turn them into something really good - Fried's calling card is his curve, Soroka's is his sinker, Folty's was his slider, Julio's was location, etc. but none of them have much in common other than the fact that they just never feel like they can just reach back and throw it by people very often. The Big Three didn't do that either, but they were taught to be really good with the down-and-away fastball on the black before even THINKING about throwing anything else. If some of the borderline guys we've had could actually keep from getting killed when they throw something above the waist I just feel like they'd have an easier time taking that final step.

 

[50PoundHead]

They do appear to be doing a better job, but part of me wonders just how much of that has to do with drafting/signing/trading for pure ceiling vs. guys you think you can turn into MLB Pitchers.

What I mean is that the Braves seem to look for more well-rounded guys that have more advanced secondary offerings and longer track records than the types of kids that just have stuff that causes your jaw to drop. Not saying I have some special knowledge that one type will be more successful in the long run, but it would seem reasonable to me that if you bring in guys like the Marlins have that constantly SIT in the upper 90s (rather than occasionally touch them) and teach them the type of breaking ball/cutter and change that your development people have had success teaching that there's at least a fungible chance they turn out better. Folty, Wright, and Wilson have struggled since their fastballs are so straight, but the ones they usually throw that get pounded have tended to be thigh-high and 92-94 MPH. If they were constantly 96-98 at the top of the zone, how many fewer get turned around - even when they're straight?

It's part of the old-school guy in me, but it just feels like the Braves have lost that edge of "listen closely when I'm talking and I'll teach you what it takes to be successful" they had way back when Leo was in charge of the Pitchers. It appears that they feel like their "pitching gurus" can take whatever they're handed and turn them into something really good - Fried's calling card is his curve, Soroka's is his sinker, Folty's was his slider, Julio's was location, etc. but none of them have much in common other than the fact that they just never feel like they can just reach back and throw it by people very often. The Big Three didn't do that either, but they were taught to be really good with the down-and-away fastball on the black before even THINKING about throwing anything else. If some of the borderline guys we've had could actually keep from getting killed when they throw something above the waist I just feel like they'd have an easier time taking that final step.

I think the fact that the seemingly rush some of these guys through the system hasn't helped. Talent clearly matters, but I see the biggest problem is that so many of these guys don't appear to be prepared. It's like they've told Wilson, "go be a little bulldog and everything will take care of itself." Bad advice. I will be curious to see if Allard amounts to anything.

 

[NYCBrave]

On this note, is it just me or does it seem like the Braves never draft anyone with elite velocity? Seems like just about every team out there is aiming for staters who can reach 100 MPH. We seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum in that regard.

 

[CyYoung31]

I think the whole “Braves suck at developing pitching” take is overblown. In the 3 years since our competitive window opened, here is the list of pitchers the Braves have developed into at least solid big league performers:

Starters: Folty, Soroka, Fried, Anderson, Ynoa

That’s a pretty damn fine group if I do say do myself.

Relievers: Minter, Newcomb (probably), Winkler, Dayton

Weaker list, but you don’t generally develop relievers. You develop starters and then turn them into relievers, which the Braves have been reluctant to do.

And then you have the rehabilitation projects like Matzek and Jackson which I think should absolutely be considered.

Are we the Rays? No. But we’re not inept either. Probably above average.

 

[jpx7]

I think the whole “Braves suck at developing pitching” take is overblown. In the 3 years since our competitive window opened, here is the list of pitchers the Braves have developed into at least solid big league performers:

Starters: Folty, Soroka, Fried, Anderson, Ynoa

That’s a pretty damn fine group if I do say do myself.

Relievers: Minter, Newcomb (probably), Winkler, Dayton

Weaker list, but you don’t generally develop relievers. You develop starters and then turn them into relievers, which the Braves have been reluctant to do.

And then you have the rehabilitation projects like Matzek and Jackson which I think should absolutely be considered.

Are we the Rays? No. But we’re not inept either. Probably above average.

Probably would’ve been able to add Toussaint to that relievers list this year, if not for his injury.

 

[zbhargrove]

Yeah that Ynoa bum has got to go. Free Roark!

I wasn’t talking about Ynoa but thanks!

 

[clvclv]

I think the whole “Braves suck at developing pitching” take is overblown. In the 3 years since our competitive window opened, here is the list of pitchers the Braves have developed into at least solid big league performers:

Starters: Folty, Soroka, Fried, Anderson, Ynoa

That’s a pretty damn fine group if I do say do myself.

Relievers: Minter, Newcomb (probably), Winkler, Dayton

Weaker list, but you don’t generally develop relievers. You develop starters and then turn them into relievers, which the Braves have been reluctant to do.

And then you have the rehabilitation projects like Matzek and Jackson which I think should absolutely be considered.

Are we the Rays? No. But we’re not inept either. Probably above average.

I don't think they "suck" by any stretch - I just have trouble following what the organizational philosophy is (if there actually is one).

In this new era where velocity continues to seemingly become more important by the day, the Braves don't appear to have anyone that remotely approaches elite velocity other than Ynoa and Matzek. Without diving deeply into the numbers, it appears that other organizations are having a lot of success with guys that can reach back paired with a nasty slider that they tinker with just a little to find them something that passes as a third pitch.

 

[Southcack77]

I think the whole “Braves suck at developing pitching” take is overblown. In the 3 years since our competitive window opened, here is the list of pitchers the Braves have developed into at least solid big league performers:

Starters: Folty, Soroka, Fried, Anderson, Ynoa

That’s a pretty damn fine group if I do say do myself.

Relievers: Minter, Newcomb (probably), Winkler, Dayton

Weaker list, but you don’t generally develop relievers. You develop starters and then turn them into relievers, which the Braves have been reluctant to do.

And then you have the rehabilitation projects like Matzek and Jackson which I think should absolutely be considered.

Are we the Rays? No. But we’re not inept either. Probably above average.

I think the Braves probably could have converted more of their arms into relievers than they have so far. They are pretty reluctant to take that step, which distinguishes them from some other organizations that almost prefer to break in starters in relief.

I do think that there is some prospect fatigue and bias against what the Braves have done with their pitching though.

Folty, Fried, Anderson, Soroka, Ynoa isn't a bad haul for the top line.

There are plenty of guys who have been in and out of the system who are major leaguers.

And there are still a fair amount of guys kicking around who might well be.

 

[Southcack77]

I don't think they "suck" by any stretch - I just have trouble following what the organizational philosophy is (if there actually is one).

In this new era where velocity continues to seemingly become more important by the day, the Braves don't appear to have anyone that remotely approaches elite velocity other than Ynoa and Matzek. Without diving deeply into the numbers, it appears that other organizations are having a lot of success with guys that can reach back paired with a nasty slider that they tinker with just a little to find them something that passes as a third pitch.

The Braves never really focused on velocity under Bridges.

Organizationally, it doesn't seem like something they have particularly worked on. If anything, the Braves have tended to play down velocity for command in the past.

Put I don't quite understand the longing for what the Marlins have, for example. They have some young pitchers that might be promising.

 

[Super]

i’m not sure any team has an easily identifiable “philosophy.” the best philosophy is “acquire good players” imo

 

[Enscheff]

i’m not sure any team has an easily identifiable “philosophy.” the best philosophy is “acquire good players” imo

If you read Longenhagens work at FG, he describes tendencies of some teams, and they definitely have them.

For example, the “thing” with the Braves was drafting guys who flashed sudden upticks in ability.

 

[Super]

If you read Longenhagens work at FG, he describes tendencies of some teams, and they definitely have them.

For example, the “thing” with the Braves was drafting guys who flashed sudden upticks in ability.

i mean more like when people say “the Braves were a pitching organization!!” talking about the 90s and 2000s when in reality like they just acquired good pitchers.

i get that certain front offices will target players with certain characteristics in draft scenarios but i don’t think of that as an overall “organizational philosophy.”

 

[Southcack77]

i mean more like when people say “the Braves were a pitching organization!!” talking about the 90s and 2000s when in reality like they just acquired good pitchers.

i get that certain front offices will target players with certain characteristics in draft scenarios but i don’t think of that as an overall “organizational philosophy.”

I think the Braves had certain tendencies in the past. But that's not particularly relevant any more to what they might do in the future. We haven't seen enough drafts to have a sense of what Anthopolous wants to do. If you had to guess it would be a bit more college heavy than the past.

Of course one thing to keep in mind is that the Braves have historically not had high picks in the drafts with which to go after the biggest stuff guys. Still, they've taken relatively few swings over the years at raw huge stuff kids over the years.

 

[Russ2dollas]

If you read Longenhagens work at FG, he describes tendencies of some teams, and they definitely have them.

For example, the “thing” with the Braves was drafting guys who flashed sudden upticks in ability.

Just like the Smyly signing...they need to put more scouting in and less models IMO. Or tweak the model.

 

[50PoundHead]

If you read Longenhagens work at FG, he describes tendencies of some teams, and they definitely have them.

For example, the “thing” with the Braves was drafting guys who flashed sudden upticks in ability.

I will be curious to see if a pattern develops with the Braves' drafting strategy given all of the changes and the disruption from last season. When Anthopoulos was GM in Toronto, they drafted pitching heavy (split fairly evenly between high school and college). Anthopoulos was obviously only part of the equation in the draft room, but they did not have much luck at all with position players. Some of that was due to injuries. The thing I noticed about Anthopoulos when he was the Toronto GM is that he traded a lot of his higher draft picks (Syndergaard, Musgrove, DeSclafani, Graveman, Boyd as examples) for established players like Josh Donaldson and David Price.