yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
When did I say I'd dismiss it if Heyward got more?
Sherman: Braves offered Heyward 80M after 2013
- Thread starter chop2chip
- Start date
When did I say I'd dismiss it if Heyward got more?
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I think the ones clearly still bitter about trading a painfully average hitter are the ones obsessed. I really don't talk about Heyward much, but he came up, so I discussed it.
Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
Threads like this one clearly say otherwise.
Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
And what does that gain exactly? When someone disagrees with a move Hart makes and the move actually works out how does it help discussion to repeat ad naseum months later this? See Guys Hart was right!
Cause it doesnt. Thethe, I could pull up posts on how you were one of Wrens biggest fans back in the day only to trash him and now strongly defend Hart in the same way. But it doesnt help actual discussion does it?
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I agree. Reasonable ppl can disagree on this. wulfpak has made his points about a run saved is as good as a run earned. I don't agree but it's not crazy.
We thought we'd see Heyward vs Stanton vs Harper in RF for years. We had the dud of the group. Still a useful player we'd love to have, but not in the ball park of the other guys.
that said we bang on Heyward too much. FF still hasn't hit 25 hr at 1B. Now he's been a very productive hitter and he took below market to stay with us. But he's not a great defender and still hasn't reached his power potential either.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
if it were even mildly easy to pump up heyward right now, it would be done by the bitter bunch. since it's not working in their favor, it's crickets.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Freddie is a really good and consistent hitter though. Ideally he'd hit more homers, but he isn't an elite player. if he hit 5-10 more, he would be.
sturg33
I
The hatred for Heyward goes way beyond the defending of Heyward.
que the "I love Heyward but..." posts
Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
So hypotheticals?
1.The Heyward defenders are the ones obsessed not the haters!
2.Thread shows otherwise
3.Well its cause he sucks right now if not then they would be the ones obsessed!!!!
Sorry it doesnt work like that.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
How on earth do I have a "hatred for Heyward." Hyperbole much? Please don't tell me if Heyward were raking and Shelby struggling you/others wouldn't be chirping about it. In hindsight I'm very happy with the return we got for Heyward. Just because I don't think he's an elite player, or not really even an all-star, doesn't mean I hate him. I still think there's potential in his bat but it's dwindling as time goes on. His ceiling is lower than it was 2,3 years ago. But people DO talk about him like he's still on the brink of greatness. And it's still possible he gets there. But his defense does not make him a stud.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I have no idea if the person who posted this thread is a Heyward "hater" or not. Plenty of defenders still talk about Heyward. Let's not pretend they don't. I'm not sure I understand your point. It's not easy to defend Heyward right now, and it's still done plenty. Which is fine. I haven't called anyone obsessed, either, for the record.
sturg33
I
Basically the only time Heyward even gets brought up is from the people who complain about the people who complained about the trades. Then those people defend Heyward.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
This thread was started by a non-Heyward "hater" (lolz) because it was a piece of information reported by a new source. So naturally, in a thread about Jason Heyward, Jason Heyward is discussed. Again, I haven't called anyone "obsessed" or whatever. Heyward is going to continue to come up. It was a polarizing trade and the results are still coming in. Some people don't like being wrong and so they don't like it being talked about. But Heyward will be talked about for years, and when the results so far GREATLY favor one side, it will be discussed. Welcome to the internetz.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
after every bad cahill start, we hear people (esp. you, sturg) rail on the FO, the trade, and say "lol top 50 prospect!" Every bad decision the FO may have made made, we hear about it, and most of them are much smaller in scale to the Heyward trade (Callaspo, Wandy/Stults, Cahill, etc). So yeah, hearing about the Heyward trade frequently is hardly surprising.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Not to beat a dead horse, but it was common sense that the two sides knew what it would take to get a deal done and when Heyward didn't perform up to what his agents figured he would to force the Braves into a deal that they thought was very heavily sided with the player, then it wasn't in JH's best financial interests anymore to get anything done and go to FA.( Which his reps seemed pretty intent on )
I don't fault JH or his representation for that gamble, but it didn't pan out. Saying the two sides weren't familiar with what would get a extension done was silly, and there were posters that harped endlessly on the fact that Braves brass didn't know what it would take or even broached the topic whatsoever with JH or his people. It was a silly position then, and its much more silly now.
I'd take JH back right now, but not at what his people tell him he is worth. This team is offensively challenged a bit, especially in the power department and adding him to the fold doesn't remedy that either. He is a great complimentary piece that has some untapped upside in his bat. I don't think we are ever looking at a true difference maker though. We need a bat (a good one ) at RF or LF or 3B. I'd take him back here in a minute, but at a reasonable rate and I think he is going to get a lot over that.
Problem is the Braves aren't getting any payroll bump to overpay for players like that. We need to stick to paying market or below (and short contracts) and dealing within those confines.
I don't fault JH or his representation for that gamble, but it didn't pan out. Saying the two sides weren't familiar with what would get a extension done was silly, and there were posters that harped endlessly on the fact that Braves brass didn't know what it would take or even broached the topic whatsoever with JH or his people. It was a silly position then, and its much more silly now.
I'd take JH back right now, but not at what his people tell him he is worth. This team is offensively challenged a bit, especially in the power department and adding him to the fold doesn't remedy that either. He is a great complimentary piece that has some untapped upside in his bat. I don't think we are ever looking at a true difference maker though. We need a bat (a good one ) at RF or LF or 3B. I'd take him back here in a minute, but at a reasonable rate and I think he is going to get a lot over that.
Problem is the Braves aren't getting any payroll bump to overpay for players like that. We need to stick to paying market or below (and short contracts) and dealing within those confines.
sturg33
I
You can count me in as a Cahill hater
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
lol, and I'm fine with that. I get it. he simply isn't good, and there wasn't a good chance he was going to be. there was a tiny chance. he's useless as a SP. i had some hope and saw the logic of the trade, but it didn't work out.
sturg33
I
Was a waste of money. It drives me nuts that we say we couldn't afford folks like Heyward and Upton, but we are giving:
11M to Markakis
3M to Callaspo
2M to KJ
2M to Gomes
6M to Cahill
4M to Grilli
Don't get me wrong - I understand you have to fill the roster and what not, but that's nearly $30M right there for folks who are not going to help us in the magical 2017. And I also understand that the returns from the Heyward/Upton trade were not insignificant - but we have to invest in good players when we have the chance. Unfortunately - trying to lock up someone in our own clubhouse is a heck of a lot easier than competing on the open market - which is the path we've chosen.
To your first point this isn't about a move working or not. This is finding the truth in what happened. When Heyward stated that he wasn't spoken to after 2012 the board went in an uproar calling the front office racist and incompetant. Then when others tried to say this was not the case by either looking at other factors such as the extensions handed out and reliable sources such as ramadon. We were lambasted for being organizational shills and the truly enlightened ones were the ones that believed Heyward. Well, at this time it does look like either Heyward was lying or withheld truth. Like others have said it doesn't make Heyward a bad guy. He probably really wanted to be a Brave and one thing led to another and that wasn't possible anymore. He was probably upset as the fans were.
Secondly, I've made it clear why I turned on Wren. Yes, when he was the GM I thought he did a great job. But when all the other junk became known it was obviously not going to be a sustainable moxel. Roy Clark was back with the Braves the second Wren pulled out of the lot. Bobby Cox had to be personally asked by JS to manage a year because Wren was pushing him out. Quite frankly I'm surprised there are still those that defend Wren.