Sherman: Braves offered Heyward 80M after 2013

thethe said:
To your first point this isn't about a move working or not. This is finding the truth in what happened. When Heyward stated that he wasn't spoken to after 2012 the board went in an uproar calling the front office racist and incompetant. Then when others tried to say this was not the case by either looking at other factors such as the extensions handed out and reliable sources such as ramadon. We were lambasted for being organizational shills and the truly enlightened ones were the ones that believed Heyward. Well, at this time it does look like either Heyward was lying or withheld truth. Like others have said it doesn't make Heyward a bad guy. He probably really wanted to be a Brave and one thing led to another and that wasn't possible anymore. He was probably upset as the fans were.

Secondly, I've made it clear why I turned on Wren. Yes, when he was the GM I thought he did a great job. But when all the other junk became known it was obviously not going to be a sustainable moxel. Roy Clark was back with the Braves the second Wren pulled out of the lot. Bobby Cox had to be personally asked by JS to manage a year because Wren was pushing him out. Quite frankly I'm surprised there are still those that defend Wren.
Click to expand...

Heyward signed an extension after 2013. They obviously talked about an extension - that was never in question.

The fact that you trust an anonymous source over Heyward himself is bizarre, IMO
 
sturg33 said:
Was a waste of money. It drives me nuts that we say we couldn't afford folks like Heyward and Upton, but we are giving:

11M to Markakis

3M to Callaspo

2M to KJ

2M to Gomes

6M to Cahill

4M to Grilli

Don't get me wrong - I understand you have to fill the roster and what not, but that's nearly $30M right there for folks who are not going to help us in the magical 2017. And I also understand that the returns from the Heyward/Upton trade were not insignificant - but we have to invest in good players when we have the chance. Unfortunately - trying to lock up someone in our own clubhouse is a heck of a lot easier than competing on the open market - which is the path we've chosen.
Click to expand...

Can't look at it that way. those guys were signed after we decided we couldn't/wouldn't keep Heyward and Upton.

Only Markakis (Bad signing) is going to be part of our long term plans. The other guys are stop gap guys. There really isn't such thing as a bad one year deal.

Those guys will be all be gone in a year, except for Markakis and Gilli (prob trade Grilli if he's any good). After a year of JUp and Heyward we would have had 2 draft picks. With the trades and all of those guys we have a lot more value than 2 picks.
 
sturg33 said:
Heyward signed an extension after 2013. They obviously talked about an extension - that was never in question.

The fact that you trust an anonymous source over Heyward himself is bizarre, IMO
Click to expand...

This is not what people were saying when Heyward was traded. There is some revisionist history here.

Well this is now two people who have reported teh same thing.
 
sturg33 said:
Was a waste of money. It drives me nuts that we say we couldn't afford folks like Heyward and Upton, but we are giving:

11M to Markakis

3M to Callaspo

2M to KJ

2M to Gomes

6M to Cahill

4M to Grilli

Don't get me wrong - I understand you have to fill the roster and what not, but that's nearly $30M right there for folks who are not going to help us in the magical 2017. And I also understand that the returns from the Heyward/Upton trade were not insignificant - but we have to invest in good players when we have the chance. Unfortunately - trying to lock up someone in our own clubhouse is a heck of a lot easier than competing on the open market - which is the path we've chosen.
Click to expand...

"Not insignificant" is like the understatement of the century. Those two trades will help facilitate the Braves being a playoff team in 2017.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Can't look at it that way. those guys were signed after we decided we couldn't/wouldn't keep Heyward and Upton.

Only Markakis (Bad signing) is going to be part of our long term plans. The other guys are stop gap guys. There really isn't such thing as a bad one year deal.

Those guys will be all be gone in a year, except for Markakis and Gilli (prob trade Grilli if he's any good). After a year of JUp and Heyward we would have had 2 draft picks. With the trades and all of those guys we have a lot more value than 2 picks.
Click to expand...

I'm sure if the Braves had it there way they would absolutely have extended one of Upton/Heyward this past offseason. once you realize that isn't possible then you have to move on. Teams like the Dodgers have 10 million dollar players ON THEIR BENCH! Braves cannot compete with these teams on the open market anymore.
 
thethe said:
Please identify who "Hates" Heyward and what those reasons are.
Click to expand...

Heyward has had one bad month and if you read this board you would think he's BJ Upton. Go look at his career splits, he always has a bad April and then he picks it up quite a bit. Having a hip injury doesn't help, he had a 860 OPS in May before he got hurt with his hip.

We have Nick ****ing Markakis in RF making 45 million dollars and people are trashing Heyward.........hilarious.
 
The issue is Hart didn't bother to talk to Heyward about an extension. He even said "we assumed" he wasn't interested.
 
BRule said:
Heyward has had one bad month and if you read this board you would think he's BJ Upton. Go look at his career splits, he always has a bad April and then he picks it up quite a bit. Having a hip injury doesn't help, he had a 860 OPS in May before he got hurt with his hip.
Click to expand...

If you think this just has to do with Heyward performance in the name of the month then thats fine. Sometimes it works like that for players. But the question is if Heyward will ever reach that potential and with each passsing day it looks like the answer to that is no. Now, that doesn't make Heyward a bad player. Until his defense starts to deteriorate he will be a really good player. Just not one I would invest a bunch of money into long term.
 
sturg33 said:
The issue is Hart didn't bother to talk to Heyward about an extension. He even said "we assumed" he wasn't interested.
Click to expand...

Maybe Hart assumed and didn't talk to him but the Braves ORGANIZATION knew exactly where Heyward and his camp were.
 
thethe said:
Maybe Hart assumed and didn't talk to him but the Braves ORGANIZATION knew exactly where Heyward and his camp were.
Click to expand...

IIRC, Wren commented after the 2013 extension that both camps wanted to wait another year before discussing the longer term deal - likely because Heyward wanted to beef up his vlaue more after missing much of 2013 when he got hit in the face and the appendectomy. So 2014 happened with the assumption that they would revisit contract talks.

Then Hart assumed he wasn't interested and traded him. It was a bit too difficult to pick up the phone to validate that assumption
 
sturg33 said:
IIRC, Wren commented after the 2013 extension that both camps wanted to wait another year before discussing the longer term deal - likely because Heyward wanted to beef up his vlaue more after missing much of 2013 when he got hit in the face and the appendectomy. So 2014 happened with the assumption that they would revisit contract talks.

Then Hart assumed he wasn't interested and traded him. It was a bit too difficult to pick up the phone to validate that assumption
Click to expand...

Sure, they could have made a phone call but based on his production there were going to be teams that would have offered 22-26 per year for Heyward. There are teams that 100% buy into the defensive metrics and there is no way the Braves could compete with that. There is absolutely no reason for Heyward 1 year removed from FA to sign an extension. No player in their right mind would ever do that and thats because its a smart move to go to FA when you are this close.
 
thethe said:
If you think this just has to do with Heyward performance in the name of the month then thats fine. Sometimes it works like that for players. But the question is if Heyward will ever reach that potential and with each passsing day it looks like the answer to that is no. Now, that doesn't make Heyward a bad player. Until his defense starts to deteriorate he will be a really good player. Just not one I would invest a bunch of money into long term.
Click to expand...

What potential? Based on these threads it appears the Anti Heyward group hates him because he's not a 330 hitter that hits 35 HRs with a 980 OPS. Heyward has had a fine career and put up good numbers, yes it's been up and down but he had two serious injuries and is only 25.

He is a career 780 OPS guy through the age of 24
He has a career fWAR of 21.9 in 5 seasons and has been worth 151 million dollars in those 5 seasons

In what world hasn't he lived up to his potential?
 
BRule said:
What potential? Based on these threads it appears the Anti Heyward group hates him because he's not a 330 hitter that hits 35 HRs with a 980 OPS. Heyward has had a fine career and put up good numbers, yes it's been up and down but he had two serious injuries and is only 25.

He is a career 780 OPS guy through the age of 24
He has a career fWAR of 21.9 in 5 seasons and has been worth 151 million dollars in those 5 seasons

In what world hasn't he lived up to his potential?
Click to expand...

Well if you try to shape that world using fWAR as the determining factor in him reaching his potential then I just disagree.

Heyward was a once in a generation type prospect. If you think a career 780 OPS (especially after his magical age 20 season) is living up to the potential then I just disagree. Heyward was supposed to be MUCH better than this.
 
thethe said:
Sure, they could have made a phone call but based on his production there were going to be teams that would have offered 22-26 per year for Heyward. There are teams that 100% buy into the defensive metrics and there is no way the Braves could compete with that. There is absolutely no reason for Heyward 1 year removed from FA to sign an extension. No player in their right mind would ever do that and thats because its a smart move to go to FA when you are this close.
Click to expand...

Based on heyward's comments after the trade, I have reason to believe :Bowman: he might have been open to it.

We'll never know though bc we assumed
 
sturg33 said:
Based on heyward's comments after the trade, I have reason to believe :Bowman: he might have been open to it.

We'll never know though bc we assumed
Click to expand...

Heyward was probably sold a bill of goods saying that the Braves would eventually cave. I absolutely believe that Heyward wanted to be a Brave but sometimes when you play hardball, or allow your agents to play hardball, teams have to act to secure the future. But as others have said, Heyward or his camp could have taken the initiative as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top