Ranked 7th by one person. Our system is highly ranked by those who love quantity. We have lots of it. We only have 1 (maybe 2) high end prospects. That is the point you are missing. Ellis is likely destined for the bullpen which isn't a bad thing but I seriously doubt he is future rotation material.
Simmons dealt to Angels for two top pitchers, Aybar
- Thread starter Oklahomabrave
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Ranked 7th by one person. Our system is highly ranked by those who love quantity. We have lots of it. We only have 1 (maybe 2) high end prospects. That is the point you are missing. Ellis is likely destined for the bullpen which isn't a bad thing but I seriously doubt he is future rotation material.
Deester11
Well-known member
Funny!
Tapate50
Well-known member
Yes, without a doubt.
Simmons was a favorite here. There will be new favorites in time. I hope Albies will be one of those in 2018.
Tapate50
Well-known member
But you have no idea. He has 1 (ONE!) year in the minors.
He was their 2nd ranked prospect. That 7th ranking puts him ahead of Sims in one evaluators mind. Think about that.
chipchildress
Awaiting a Promotion
simmons is owed a lot in the back end of that contract. the club is setting themselves up to have both plenty of young talent and plenty of payroll flexibility in a few years. if you're going to rebuild, do it right. rushing this to be pretty good in a year or two isn't as good as planning to be great in three or four years. i know it's a long time, but potentially they'll be so freaking set for years to come after just a few more wasted summers.
as it was, the top end prospects in the system were eh. this is one more top guy now that can really matter. the rotation now is close to being freaking stacked down the line. it's dark today, but will pay off in a big way.
as for position players, clearly the braves are planning on signing as many international guys as they can to fill those voids. we'll see, but the 18 year old class of draftees seems to be the true core of the next generation so it's going to take three or four years anyway. may as well get better for the future than hang on to a guy during his prime years as you will lose anyway only to have him get more and more expensive as you go.
as it was, the top end prospects in the system were eh. this is one more top guy now that can really matter. the rotation now is close to being freaking stacked down the line. it's dark today, but will pay off in a big way.
as for position players, clearly the braves are planning on signing as many international guys as they can to fill those voids. we'll see, but the 18 year old class of draftees seems to be the true core of the next generation so it's going to take three or four years anyway. may as well get better for the future than hang on to a guy during his prime years as you will lose anyway only to have him get more and more expensive as you go.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Finished in AA I believe. Would probably either pick up there for a few months, or start at AAA for us depending on rosters. I would imagine a Sept callup if all systems are go is not unrealistic.
I think we've decided to become innovators in the baseball world. In 10 years you will no longer see 5 man set rotations and 7 BP arms. No, no, no. Starting in 2017, we're go to roll with 12 starting pitchers. I mean relievers are basically failed starters anyways, right? Starting in 2017, every game we're going to run out 1 starter for 5 innings, then roll out another starter to finish the game. Opposing offenses won't know what hit em'!!! This would also explain why we traded away the best closer in baseball as well. We simply won't have a need for him anymore
2017 Braves - Leading the way for baseball innovation
2017 Braves - Leading the way for baseball innovation
striker42
Well-known member
The whole comparing Newcomb to Price thing is ridiculous. All they really have in common is the fact that they're both big, hard throwing lefties. There are dozens of guys in the majors that match this description but only one David Price.
I've read different things about Newcomb. One writer quoted a scout saying that Newcomb will be a front line starter and that the control isn't a worry because he's consistently around the plate. With experience he'll dial it in. Another writer quoted a scout saying he doesn't see Newcomb sticking as a starter. Said that the control issues will make him a high pitch count starter who has to be moved to the pen. I think Baseball America has the control issues stemming from him struggling to find a consistent release point. If that's the case then I'm very optimistic. That's something you can fix. Kimbrel had that issue when he first game up. Once he smoothed things out, he became the pitcher we saw.
The thing I like about getting Newcomb is that he's a legitimate threat to be a dominant player. Wisler was a highly ranked prospect but that was more because his polish made him very low risk. He projects as more of a middle of the rotation starter. A guy who is useful but not someone who is going to carry your team. Guys like Newcomb, Allard, Sims, Fried, Toussaint, and even Folty have the potential to be studs. The sky is the limit with them. If we can hit on 2 out of that group, we'll have the makings of a very good staff. Some will definitely bust but I love having high ceiling guys. Better to wager when the potential payoff is high.
Ellis is highly thought of to be able to crack our top 10 but he just doesn't excite me as a starter. I think he'll fit better with us as a reliever. With all the pitching we've acquired, guys with middle of the rotation ceilings just don't seem to have much room in our system.
I've read different things about Newcomb. One writer quoted a scout saying that Newcomb will be a front line starter and that the control isn't a worry because he's consistently around the plate. With experience he'll dial it in. Another writer quoted a scout saying he doesn't see Newcomb sticking as a starter. Said that the control issues will make him a high pitch count starter who has to be moved to the pen. I think Baseball America has the control issues stemming from him struggling to find a consistent release point. If that's the case then I'm very optimistic. That's something you can fix. Kimbrel had that issue when he first game up. Once he smoothed things out, he became the pitcher we saw.
The thing I like about getting Newcomb is that he's a legitimate threat to be a dominant player. Wisler was a highly ranked prospect but that was more because his polish made him very low risk. He projects as more of a middle of the rotation starter. A guy who is useful but not someone who is going to carry your team. Guys like Newcomb, Allard, Sims, Fried, Toussaint, and even Folty have the potential to be studs. The sky is the limit with them. If we can hit on 2 out of that group, we'll have the makings of a very good staff. Some will definitely bust but I love having high ceiling guys. Better to wager when the potential payoff is high.
Ellis is highly thought of to be able to crack our top 10 but he just doesn't excite me as a starter. I think he'll fit better with us as a reliever. With all the pitching we've acquired, guys with middle of the rotation ceilings just don't seem to have much room in our system.
Or may be the plan is to stockpile all this pitching and then sign all the top tier FA pitchers this winter, thereby forcing the market into our favor. With the market dry, teams will be blowing our FO up trying to trade any of their great hitters for a drink of our young, refreshing pitching surplus.
Smart play, Johns. Smart play.
Smart play, Johns. Smart play.
You're right. He's a future middle of the rotation starter. Sims is another likely bullpen piece moving forward. Again there is nothing wrong with that but I think you are confusing quantity with quality which is what a lot of people on here did last offseason.
DirkPiggler
Well-known member
Toussaint?
Tapate50
Well-known member
I'm not confusing anything at all. My point is you have no idea what these guys will do/develop into. Don't act like its a done deal. Sims just blew through the AFL and had a huge 2nd half. So I'd rethink that opinion.
Fried, Toussiant, Newcomb, Wisler, Allard, Soroka, Sims are prospects ANY teams would love to have in their top 5. Much less Jenkins and the next tier.
I have a pretty good idea that we don't need to continue to stockpile pitching.
striker42
Well-known member
Why do you think Sims is a likely bullpen piece? He's got great velocity and life on his fastball, his curve is good, and his changeup is coming along. He's got a good shot at having three major league pitches. The biggest flaw in his game has been his BBs. But considering how he's young and the Braves have pushed him, there's a very good chance that improves. In fact, there are signs that's developing as we speak.
His last 3 starts at Mississipi he went at least 6 IP and didn't walk more than 2. Now in the AFL he's K'd 15 and walked only 3 in 14 IP. The AFL is usually a hitter's league. In his last 33.1 IP, he's walked only 8 men compared to 37 Ks. That's pretty dominant.
When you consider the fact that he started the year as a 20 year old in high A ball, missed over a month due to a bus crash, came back, earned a promotion to AA, finished the year as a 21 year old in AA, and has over 4.5 K/BB over his last 33.1 IP, you should be excited!
sturg33
I
What is the point of making this comment? Are professional athletes not competitive? They're ALL rich. That doesn't mean they don't want to win
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
How can you say that Newcomb and Wisler are only elite prospects?!? I guess we need to define elite. But those above plus Folty all can be consider top talent. Folty is close to ready, just not polished. there is no question that he has the ability to be special. I think having the ability is all I need to consider a prospect elite. Riley could be considered elite in the same perspective as Allard would be. High draft pick that excelled out of the gate.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Since none of them will be impact players, then we better ! LOL.