Simmons not voted best defensive player among coaches.

Could Simmons be underrated for making things look too easy? There have been many defensive players be underrated over the years for that reason.
 
BremanFan88 said:
Or a world where fans don't think bad defenders are somehow "solid" because *insert illogical reason here*...
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I believe my eyes.

And yes, my eyes saw my boy Chris airmail a 6'5" 1B last night. That was ugly. And almost costly.

Serious question: Last year after three months, WAR had Michael Bourn worth more than Matt Kemp, mostly on the strength of dWAR. I've read all the disclaimers about year to year numbers being all over the map and needing to look over several years for them to stabilize. There were people here (well, at Scout) and elsewhere who took that as the last word. At the time, Kemp was playing what appeared to be (and was rated as) adequate defense with massive hitting stats, while Bourn was having a nice season with a little power (but nowhere near the impact of Kemp).

Do you believe Michael Bourn had a better first half last year than Matt Kemp?
 
By all accounts kemp may be the worst defensive CFer in baseball.

The way you guys term players as adequate defenders makes me think there can never be a bad defensive player in the history of baseball.
 
gilesfan said:
By all accounts kemp may be the worst defensive CFer in baseball.

The way you guys term players as adequate defenders makes me think there can never be a bad defensive player in the history of baseball.
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Kemp isn't the worst defensive CF'er in baseball.

He's not too bad there from when I watch him play.
 
Heyward said:
Kemp isn't the worst defensive CF'er in baseball.

He's not too bad there from when I watch him play.
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Your judge of defensive talent is pretty amusing.

Next, tell me how good of a defensive first baseman Gattis is.
 
Heyward said:
Kemp isn't the worst defensive CF'er in baseball.

He's not too bad there from when I watch him play.
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Of everyday starters, he is the worst in both UZR and DRS by a long margin. Since 2009 he's been worse below average than Bourn has been above average. Kemp is toolsy, but has bad instincts. Classic example of a guy who people think he's better than he really is because he doesn't "look" horrible because people associate looking horrible with Errors.

Kemp just doesn't have great range.
 
gilesfan said:
Your judge of defensive talent is pretty amusing.

Next, tell me how good of a defensive first baseman Gattis is.
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Says the guy who said Ryan Zimmerman is the best defensive 3B in baseball, like you can be talking.

He's not great there, but for a spot start here or there he would be ok.
 
Heyward said:
Says the guy who said Ryan Zimmerman is the best defensive 3B in baseball, like you can be talking.

He's not great there, but for a spot start here or there he would be ok.
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Name some bad defenders, Heyward.
 
zitothebrave said:
Of everyday starters, he is the worst in both UZR and DRS by a long margin. Since 2009 he's been worse below average than Bourn has been above average. Kemp is toolsy, but has bad instincts. Classic example of a guy who people think he's better than he really is because he doesn't "look" horrible because people associate looking horrible with Errors.

Kemp just doesn't have great range.
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Wait a minute. I thought CJ was the worst in the game.

I understand range, and I understand its importance in defense. Many of these guys with bad metrics are explained by "bad range." We'll, I'll tell you something. Even if Chris Johnson or Freddie Freeman or Dan Uggla or yes, Matt Kemp, have bad range, there is no way their range costs their teams 3 games a year. Defense isn't as important or measurable as offense. Many of these guys do something well that doesn't get represented or is underrepresented in stats. Dan Uggla turns the double play as well as anyone. And Freddie Freeman handles throws and stretches and saves errors as well as anyone. And nobody seems to measure that accurately.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Wait a minute. I thought CJ was the worst in the game.

I understand range, and I understand its importance in defense. Many of these guys with bad metrics are explained by "bad range." We'll, I'll tell you something. Even if Chris Johnson or Freddie Freeman or Dan Uggla or yes, Matt Kemp, have bad range, there is no way their range costs their teams 3 games a year. Defense isn't as important or measurable as offense. Many of these guys do something well that doesn't get represented or is underrepresented in stats. Dan Uggla turns the double play as well as anyone. And Freddie Freeman handles throws and stretches and saves errors as well as anyone. And nobody seems to measure that accurately.
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I agree with this. I think that defensive metrics are valuable in deciding who is the best at each position. However I am convinced that they are very inaccurate for things such as runs saved and DWar. Good offense trumps good defense every time.
 
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