So, this has been happening....

[57Brave]

I agree with Sturg in that I know a number of the same people. Good, honest innovative people that were strangled by regulation.
On the other hand, I too know a number of people that found a way to navigate the waters of regulation.
In the end isn't that the difference between a "good" business man and one not so much? One that recognizes obstacles and sees/ creates a way through

This isn't in any way a value judgement but some people are chiefs and some people are indians.

 

[AerchAngel]

I think the increased regulation burden has really hurt small businesses. I can't tell you how many people I work with who had once started their own business who tell me that they would no longer be willing to do it today because of the regulations

We are fortunate not to be stymied by it because we do not have products but service base. The only requirement is updating of licensing and that increases every year.

 

[zitothebrave]

I realize that "small business" is a pretty big umbrella, and one can't necessarily generalize about them as easily as we're wont to, but . . .

Obamacare isn't particularly hard on small business. If you're under 50 employees, there's no employer mandate to provide insurance. In fact, if you DO provide insurance, there's a nice tax credit (35%, soon to rise to 50%) that covers a portion of what you pay in premiums. I'm sure someone can provide something, but I'm struggling to come up with a specific way that O has been hard on small business. Of course, in a sluggish recovery of an economy built on consumer spending, many businesses are suffering from demand issues, but that's another kettle of fish.

I second 50s point above about the structural changes in our economy. Much of it is now in the service sector, and a large portion of those jobs are easily sent offshore, or automated. The price of entry to the middle and upper-middle class has increased—school tuition, child care, housing—and household incomes have stayed pretty flat. For a couple of decades the slack was taken up by single-income households becoming two-income households, but that has pretty much run its course. There's not an ideological silver bullet for the structural shifts 50 describes. Those of us on either side of the divide have our favored ideas, but I'd be skeptical of anyone who offers an easy fix.

Traditionally 50 employees or less is a small business, thoughthe governmentn definition is convoluted. As per usual.

 

[50PoundHead]

I think the increased regulation burden has really hurt small businesses. I can't tell you how many people I work with who had once started their own business who tell me that they would no longer be willing to do it today because of the regulations

I think this is pretty much true. I think there needs to be some broad regulations on environment and general labor practices, but it really does go too far these days and this is coming from someone left-of-center.

 

[zitothebrave]

I think this is pretty much true. I think there needs to be some broad regulations on environment and general labor practices, but it really does go to far these days and this is coming from someone left-of-center.

In reality I think the biggest problem is that the government has the same rules and regulations for mega corporations as they do for smaller businesses. Home Depot and local home repair store shouldn't have the same regulations. Nasty dirty factory farms and small farms shouldn't have the same regulation.

 

[AerchAngel]

In reality I think the biggest problem is that the government has the same rules and regulations for mega corporations as they do for smaller businesses. Home Depot and local home repair store shouldn't have the same regulations. Nasty dirty factory farms and small farms shouldn't have the same regulation.

While true and I agree with you, but you are going to factor in increase in minimum wage if it happens.

Say a mom and pop store pays like 8 an hour but they take in as a family 80k after all expenses. Mandated they pay 2 more an hour and you have six employees, that would take another 18 to 24k from their expenses and put them at 50 to 56k which is not much.

So how can a small business offset the pay increase? Raise prices when looking at the big boys who are gobbling you up like Walmart and others or let people go and can keep their prices the same.

Those are real world issues that ma an pops have to contend with.

 

[The Tariff King]

While true and I agree with you, but you are going to factor in increase in minimum wage if it happens.

Say a mom and pop store pays like 8 an hour but they take in as a family 80k after all expenses. Mandated they pay 2 more an hour and you have six employees, that would take another 18 to 24k from their expenses and put them at 50 to 56k which is not much.

So how can a small business offset the pay increase? Raise prices when looking at the big boys who are gobbling you up like Walmart and others or let people go and can keep their prices the same.

Those are real world issues that ma an pops have to contend with.

Which is exactly why liberals fought for small business, and exactly why progressives despise Wal Mart.

Mainstream Republicans have only wanted to cut taxes using small business as a martyr, when it's the corporate change in their pockets.

Wal Mart is evil when it comes to destroying good paying jobs, but people like sturg are cool with it though in the name of the free market.

I remember when I was younger there were no Wal Mart supercenters, and they were merely a department store. Then they started putting groceries in their stores and opened supercenters with full tire service and some auto repairs paying their employees low wages continuously for years. I think Savannah is reduced to 1 independent/mom and pop grocer. There's 5 Wal Mart Supercenters within a 7 mile radius.

 

[sturg33]

Which is exactly why liberals fought for small business, and exactly why progressives despise Wal Mart.

Mainstream Republicans have only wanted to cut taxes using small business as a martyr, when it's the corporate change in their pockets.

Wal Mart is evil when it comes to destroying good paying jobs, but people like sturg are cool with it though in the name of the free market.

I remember when I was younger there were no Wal Mart supercenters, and they were merely a department store. Then they started putting groceries in their stores and opened supercenters with full tire service and some auto repairs paying their employees low wages continuously for years. I think Savannah is reduced to 1 independent/mom and pop grocer. There's 5 Wal Mart Supercenters within a 7 mile radius.

Walmart is the number one employer in the US. You can argue that they kill "good paying jobs" (I would argue that - what is the difference in what a mom and pop is paying per hour vs WM, maybe a couple bucks per hour? Maybe??). At the same time, they give millions of uneducated people work and pay checks. Also, they provide goods at a much cheaper price than most stores. If you don't think that matters - especially to low income families - then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[zitothebrave]

Walmart is the number one employer in the US. You can argue that they kill "good paying jobs" (I would argue that - what is the difference in what a mom and pop is paying per hour vs WM, maybe a couple bucks per hour? Maybe??). At the same time, they give millions of uneducated people work and pay checks. Also, they provide goods at a much cheaper price than most stores. If you don't think that matters - especially to low income families - then I don't know what to tell you.

Cause low income and middle class families have it so much better than they used to. Hahahaha.

 

[thethe]

Walmart just contributes to the consolidation of wealth and that I can't stand. I know it goes against my belief of capitalism but I just don't believe that consolidation of wealth is a precursor to anything positive.

 

[zitothebrave]

While true and I agree with you, but you are going to factor in increase in minimum wage if it happens.

Say a mom and pop store pays like 8 an hour but they take in as a family 80k after all expenses. Mandated they pay 2 more an hour and you have six employees, that would take another 18 to 24k from their expenses and put them at 50 to 56k which is not much.

So how can a small business offset the pay increase? Raise prices when looking at the big boys who are gobbling you up like Walmart and others or let people go and can keep their prices the same.

Those are real world issues that ma an pops have to contend with.

I agree with you, I think that minimum wage hikes hurt small businesses.

 

[The Tariff King]

Walmart is the number one employer in the US. You can argue that they kill "good paying jobs" (I would argue that - what is the difference in what a mom and pop is paying per hour vs WM, maybe a couple bucks per hour? Maybe??). At the same time, they give millions of uneducated people work and pay checks. Also, they provide goods at a much cheaper price than most stores. If you don't think that matters - especially to low income families - then I don't know what to tell you.

Wal Mart gives poor and uneducated people work, then encourages them to go on welfare programs like food stamps because they can't get an honest wage, and then where do the employees put that money right back?

The difference between a mom and pop paying someone $13 an hour compared to $8 an hour... that's 200 dollars a week more, 800 a month more, and 9,600 more. A specialty tire guy at Savannah Tire gets paid around $13 an hour, the guy at Sam's/Wal-Mart gets paid less than $9. You don't think that makes a difference? Rotation of tires costs $12 bucks at Sams, it costs $39 at Savannah Tire. Do the math, that money isn't going to stockholders or CEO's bonus. It's going to the workers.

 

[sturg33]

Wal Mart gives poor and uneducated people work, then encourages them to go on welfare programs like food stamps because they can't get an honest wage, and then where do the employees put that money right back?

The difference between a mom and pop paying someone $13 an hour compared to $8 an hour... that's 200 dollars a week more, 800 a month more, and 9,600 more. A specialty tire guy at Savannah Tire gets paid around $13 an hour, the guy at Sam's/Wal-Mart gets paid less than $9. You don't think that makes a difference? Rotation of tires costs $12 bucks at Sams, it costs $39 at Savannah Tire. Do the math, that money isn't going to stockholders or CEO's bonus. It's going to the workers.

Sure, but then the guy maaking $9/hr can get his tires from Walmart $40/tire cheaper. In addition to all of his grocery and personal care living... Is he saving $10K a year? Probably not. But again, if Wlamrt went out of business tomorrow, that would be very very bad news for our economy, do you not agree?

 

[sturg33]

Cause low income and middle class families have it so much better than they used to. Hahahaha.

LOL, that has nothing to do with Walmart. It has to do with out federal government intervening more and more.

 

[thethe]

Sure, but then the guy maaking $9/hr can get his tires from Walmart $40/tire cheaper. In addition to all of his grocery and personal care living... Is he saving $10K a year? Probably not. But again, if Wlamrt went out of business tomorrow, that would be very very bad news for our economy, do you not agree?

I don't think that translates that Walmart is good for the economy though. It just means Walmart has grown so big the shock of it going out of business in the short term would be disastrous. But in the long term you could argue it would be better for the economy.

 

[The Tariff King]

Sure, but then the guy maaking $9/hr can get his tires from Walmart $40/tire cheaper. In addition to all of his grocery and personal care living... Is he saving $10K a year? Probably not. But again, if Wlamrt went out of business tomorrow, that would be very very bad news for our economy, do you not agree?

Like you guys argued about letting the too big to fail banks fail, other companies would consolidate, and new businesses would emerge.

The difference is, Wal Mart may be the biggest employer, but it wouldn't bring down the likes of Target, Costco, and other retailers down the drain. Their business would increase, and in turn potentially hire more employees.

During the housing crisis, every major bank was either being sold, merged, or going out of business.

Wal Mart caused many small town's mom and pop shops to collapse, who's to say if wal mart collapsed they wouldn't re-emerge?

 

[zitothebrave]

LOL, that has nothing to do with Walmart. It has to do with out federal government intervening more and more.

So it has nothing to do with corporations who have outsourced their purchasing power to China/India/Indonesia/etc. to get lower costs, who support factor farms, etc. taking jobs from people in the name of driving down costs, isn't part of the problem?

 

[The Tariff King]

So it has nothing to do with corporations who have outsourced their purchasing power to China/India/Indonesia/etc. to get lower costs, who support factor farms, etc. taking jobs from people in the name of driving down costs, isn't part of the problem?

That's called the free market.

 

[zitothebrave]

That's called the free market.

But it's not the free market, because countries like China create an unfair marketplace where they devalue their currency which makes exporting cheap and imports expensive. Only positive is because of the attention brought to the horrid working conditions in china, now companies are realizing they can handle certain aspects of production in the states (Motorola building the Moto X in the US, Apple building Mac Pro in US, etc.) if China had been actual participants in the freemarket this shift would have happened years ago.

The problem with the free market is the same as the problem with outlawing guns, you're only stopping the people who play by the rules. Countries/corporations who don't play by the rules will manipulate the market and i'ts not free. Free market is an idealism like COmmunism that sounds great on paper but cannot exist in reality.

 

[Krgrecw]

Like you guys argued about letting the too big to fail banks fail, other companies would consolidate, and new businesses would emerge.

The difference is, Wal Mart may be the biggest employer, but it wouldn't bring down the likes of Target, Costco, and other retailers down the drain. Their business would increase, and in turn potentially hire more employees.

During the housing crisis, every major bank was either being sold, merged, or going out of business.

Wal Mart caused many small town's mom and pop shops to collapse, who's to say if wal mart collapsed they wouldn't re-emerge?

Walmart is having serious financial issues. They'd be crippled if they had to up everyone's pay 2 dollars.

People need to quit talking about the jobs that went overseas . They are gone and they aren't coming back. All we can do today is try to keep as many jobs as we have now in this country.