SP options

clvclv said:
Hate to say it, but it's getting close to time to panic. You probably have to run Wright out there again for his next turn, but if Touki stumbles again you may have no choice other than to bring Anderson up.

You'd obviously prefer to try Davidson (or even De La Cruz) since they're already on the 40-Man, but if they've only been playing 5 inning games in Gwinnett you have to wonder if they've been trying to stretch anyone out other than Folty, Newk, Wright, Touki, Wilson, and Anderson down there.
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Panic might be a bit of a strong word, but in a 60 game season with a team undoubtedly on the path to the playoffs, the time for needing answers in the rotation is certainly close.

I think Fried and Wright and Touki are in no matter what, for better or worse. In the cases of Wright and Touki the coaching staff simply has to make it work. Pull them at the correct time, micromanage their pitch usage, etc. Those are the most talented options, so use what they have. They may not be traditional 5+ inning SPs, but they are part of the answer even if it’s 2-3 innings.

Folty probably isn’t coming back. Newk should never start another game, which should have been obvious 2 years ago. Hamels can not be relied upon in any way. It’s going to be the 2018/2019 Brewers this year in Atlanta with a deep and talented BP covering many innings.

The Braves are a playoff team. AA needs to get at least 1 SP via trade, and fix 3b with a LHH. Then hope Acuna and the BP can carry them through the playoffs. Needing 2-3 players at the deadline is common for every contender, and this year is no different.
 
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Enscheff said:
Panic might be a bit of a strong word, but in a 60 game season with a team undoubtedly on the path to the playoffs, the time for needing answers in the rotation is certainly close.

I think Fried and Wright and Touki are in no matter what, for better or worse. In the cases of Wright and Touki the coaching staff simply has to make it work. Pull them at the correct time, micromanage their pitch usage, etc. Those are the most talented options, so use what they have. They may not be traditional 5+ inning SPs, but they are part of the answer even if it’s 2-3 innings.

Folty probably isn’t coming back. Newk should never start another game, which should have been obvious 2 years ago. Hamels can not be relied upon in any way. It’s going to be the 2018/2019 Brewers this year in Atlanta with a deep and talented BP covering many innings.

The Braves are a playoff team. AA needs to get at least 1 SP via trade, and fix 3b with a LHH. Then hope Acuna and the BP can carry them through the playoffs. Needing 2-3 players at the deadline is common for every contender, and this year is no different.
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Would Newk benefit from going to drive line?
 
With the lost revenue being so important to a corporate owned team, is it likely that Liberty Media will approve the money necessary for a TOR pitcher and that LH hitting 3d. Especially considering the money spent in the past off season. Or is it more likely they will wait til coming off season when tons of money should be available if the COVID mess is resolved?
 
TheBravos said:
Would Newk benefit from going to drive line?
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Newk needs to just be totally revamped. There's a compelling argument that he's tipping his pitches and he can't keep a consistent release point.

Not a starting or relief option right now, but he might honestly get another life in 2021 if there is some progress.
 
TheBravos said:
Would Newk benefit from going to drive line?
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I don’t pretend to know what’s wrong with Newk, or how to fix it. I also don’t know what they physically do at Driveline, or if what they do improves command. I’m pretty sure they work on improving velocity and spin axis to increase pitch performance, but that isn’t really Newk’s problem.

My guess is Newk needs to stick to the FA and a single breaking ball, learn how to execute both consistently, and then work on adding the CH. I have no idea what mechanical tweak he could make to improve control, since to me his delivery looks controlled and balanced. I have a feeling any changes they make are going to have more mental benefits than physical ones...hey, this new slight tweak makes me throw strikes, so I can be more aggressive.

He has always been in a race between improving his control while his stuff deteriorates. He’s losing that race pretty badly now.
 
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Assuming the Rangers fall out of contention, how far should AA be willing to go to add Lance Lynn?


Money coming off the books following this season:

Ozuna - $18 million
Hamels - $18 million
Melancon - $14 million
Folty - $6.425 million
Greene - $6.25 million
Markakis - $4 million
Flowers - $4 million
Duvall - $3.5 million
O'day - $3 million (if bought out)


That's $77.175 million - call it $70 million to account for raises for Acuna, Albies, and Dansby. Fried likely jumps into the $3 million range? Promotions making the minimum should include Pache, Waters, Contreras, Anderson and Shewmake (potentially). If a Riley/Wilson deal nets you Seager, you're down to ~ $49 million left.

Assuming AA wants to bring Ozuna back as the RH bat behind Freddie, is it fair to assume he can do that for 3/$45 million? Would leave you with ~ 34 million.

With Lynn under contract for 2021 at $8 million, it might be pretty easy to convince me to give up Wright in a deal for him. You'd have $26 million left to chase a second-tier SP (Odorizzi/Paxton/Stroman/Minor) to replace Wright in the #4 slot that you shouldn't have to give more than a 4 year deal to. Then you'd have your mix of Newk/Touki/Anderson/the rest of the young arms that are left to battle for the #5 slot. You'd also have some money left to potentially bring Duvall back, tweak the pen, and look into a reasonable Soroka or Fried extension. Lynn's money coming off in 2022 almost covers the first year Acuna starts making real money.
 
Why would you buy out O’Day? AA is likely to bring one of Greene/Melacon back also. They will also need a big bat to replace Ozuna (either 3rd or outfield).
 
TheBravos said:
Why would you buy out O’Day? AA is likely to bring one of Greene/Melacon back also. They will also need a big bat to replace Ozuna (either 3rd or outfield).
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He's on the list because AA can decide to pass on his option and save $3 million - just totaling up the money that could come off the books if he needs it to work with. There aren't very many 5th/6th inning guys making $3.5 million. Why pay O'Day $3.5 million when you can pay Weigel $600,000 to do the same thing?

(BTW - read closer. Ozuna is the big bat to replace Ozuna.)
 
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clvclv said:
Assuming the Rangers fall out of contention, how far should AA be willing to go to add Lance Lynn?


Money coming off the books following this season:

Ozuna - $18 million
Hamels - $18 million
Melancon - $14 million
Folty - $6.425 million
Greene - $6.25 million
Markakis - $4 million
Flowers - $4 million
Duvall - $3.5 million
O'day - $3 million (if bought out)


That's $77.175 million - call it $70 million to account for raises for Acuna, Albies, and Dansby. Fried likely jumps into the $3 million range? Promotions making the minimum should include Pache, Waters, Contreras, Anderson and Shewmake (potentially). If a Riley/Wilson deal nets you Seager, you're down to ~ $49 million left.

Assuming AA wants to bring Ozuna back as the RH bat behind Freddie, is it fair to assume he can do that for 3/$45 million? Would leave you with ~ 34 million.

With Lynn under contract for 2021 at $8 million, it might be pretty easy to convince me to give up Wright in a deal for him. You'd have $26 million left to chase a second-tier SP (Odorizzi/Paxton/Stroman/Minor) to replace Wright in the #4 slot that you shouldn't have to give more than a 4 year deal to. Then you'd have your mix of Newk/Touki/Anderson/the rest of the young arms that are left to battle for the #5 slot. You'd also have some money left to potentially bring Duvall back, tweak the pen, and look into a reasonable Soroka or Fried extension. Lynn's money coming off in 2022 almost covers the first year Acuna starts making real money.
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The numbers are interesting. We do have a lot of money coming off. WE do still have cheap stars and need to take advantage.

BUT we don't know what corona virus is going to do to Liberty. Will they let them have any money to spend next year?

Then we know there is a labor stoppage after next year. Will the Braves be willing to take on any long term money with the labor changes coming?

The more I think about it, I don't see the Braves doing multi year deals. I would HOPE they'd take advantage of a cheap owner and get a deal now by being willing to pay money. I'll believe it when I see it.

Given AA's love of extensions, it would be interesting to see if he would extend Soroka coming off a big injury. Or extend Fried given he's had TJ and just saw his friend have a big injury.
 
clvclv said:
He's on the list because AA can decide to pass on his option and save $3 million - just totaling up the money that could come off the books if he needs it to work with. There aren't very many 5th/6th inning guys making $3.5 million. Why pay O'Day $3.5 million when you can pay Weigel $600,000 to do the same thing?

(BTW - read closer. Ozuna is the big bat to replace Ozuna.)
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I don't expect Weigel to have a sub 2 era
 
clvclv said:
Assuming the Rangers fall out of contention, how far should AA be willing to go to add Lance Lynn?


Money coming off the books following this season:

Ozuna - $18 million
Hamels - $18 million
Melancon - $14 million
Folty - $6.425 million
Greene - $6.25 million
Markakis - $4 million
Flowers - $4 million
Duvall - $3.5 million
O'day - $3 million (if bought out)


That's $77.175 million - call it $70 million to account for raises for Acuna, Albies, and Dansby. Fried likely jumps into the $3 million range? Promotions making the minimum should include Pache, Waters, Contreras, Anderson and Shewmake (potentially). If a Riley/Wilson deal nets you Seager, you're down to ~ $49 million left.

Assuming AA wants to bring Ozuna back as the RH bat behind Freddie, is it fair to assume he can do that for 3/$45 million? Would leave you with ~ 34 million.

With Lynn under contract for 2021 at $8 million, it might be pretty easy to convince me to give up Wright in a deal for him. You'd have $26 million left to chase a second-tier SP (Odorizzi/Paxton/Stroman/Minor) to replace Wright in the #4 slot that you shouldn't have to give more than a 4 year deal to. Then you'd have your mix of Newk/Touki/Anderson/the rest of the young arms that are left to battle for the #5 slot. You'd also have some money left to potentially bring Duvall back, tweak the pen, and look into a reasonable Soroka or Fried extension. Lynn's money coming off in 2022 almost covers the first year Acuna starts making real money.
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I brought up Lance Lynn before lol, he's been insane so far. Has a relatively favorable contract but have said i dunno how willing AA is to trade this year in this kinda year.

I think it would cost more than 3/45 to keep Ozuna but who knows if he'd jump on that with the CV limiting some teams. I think we re-sign one of Greene/MM whichever is cheaper, and bring back O'Day at a slightly cheaper rate. Rotation is a mess, that and 3B is the biggest holes. Pache "should" start for Ender next year, he's so bad. 2 SP's, a 3B, and bullpen depth along with Ozuna or a bat behind FF the biggest holes.
 
Russ2dollas said:
The numbers are interesting. We do have a lot of money coming off. WE do still have cheap stars and need to take advantage.

BUT we don't know what corona virus is going to do to Liberty. Will they let them have any money to spend next year?

Then we know there is a labor stoppage after next year. Will the Braves be willing to take on any long term money with the labor changes coming?

The more I think about it, I don't see the Braves doing multi year deals. I would HOPE they'd take advantage of a cheap owner and get a deal now by being willing to pay money. I'll believe it when I see it.

Given AA's love of extensions, it would be interesting to see if he would extend Soroka coming off a big injury. Or extend Fried given he's had TJ and just saw his friend have a big injury.
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Thing with AA and money is he'll spend, but it's been mostly short-term minus Will Smith. We do have a ton of money off the books next year, but do have alot of holes as well. He's also done trades and taken money back to lessen prospect cost. Trade deadline will be interesting to see what he does, if anything.

3B, at least 2 SP, bullpen depth, and a bopper behind FF.
 
Heyward said:
Thing with AA and money is he'll spend, but it's been mostly short-term minus Will Smith. We do have a ton of money off the books next year, but do have alot of holes as well. He's also done trades and taken money back to lessen prospect cost. Trade deadline will be interesting to see what he does, if anything.

3B, at least 2 SP, bullpen depth, and a bopper behind FF.
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What would be really interesting to me would be to find out what it would take to get Marco Gonzales included in a potential Seager deal. Gonzales has exactly the type of team-friendly options you'd love to have - he could become the left-handed version of Julio. 4 years/$29 million plus an option for 2024 at $15 million with no buyout.

Then turn around and go get Lynn, and the 2021 rotation is really good and costs peanuts...

Lynn - $8 million
Fried - ???
Soroka - ???
Gonzales - $5 million


If AA could do that while keeping Newk, Touki, Anderson, De La Cruz, Muller, and Shuster he would be able to spend whatever he wants to on bringing Ozuna back and tweaking the pen.
 
thewupk said:
I don't expect Weigel to have a sub 2 era
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Can't imagine you expect him to cost $3.5 million either.

O'Day's great - one of my favorites - but there's not a lot of reason to pay a 5th/6th inning guy that kind of money.

If the 2021 back-end already looks like Smith, Martin, Minter. Maybe you DFA Jackson this winter and keep O'Day - I'd be thrilled with that. Maybe you stop trying to get more length from Touki and Newk and you can piggyback them with Anderson every 5th day. The point is there's certainly no need to keep Jackson AND O'Day for that kind of money if they're not going to be late-inning options - cut both of them loose and see if you can bring Greene back. Smith/Martin/Minter/Greene is plenty good enough that you can get by with Webb/Walker/Weigel/Ynoa/Sobotka as your mop-up guys and spend that money elsewhere, and that's before you even think about bringing guys like Tomlin, Matzek, and Erlin back.

The one thing this organization has arguably been better than anybody else at is turning those scrap-heap veteran arms into gold, and there will be plenty of them out there this winter.
 
clvclv said:
Can't imagine you expect him to cost $3.5 million either.

O'Day's great - one of my favorites - but there's not a lot of reason to pay a 5th/6th inning guy that kind of money.

If the 2021 back-end already looks like Smith, Martin, Minter. Maybe you DFA Jackson this winter and keep O'Day - I'd be thrilled with that. Maybe you stop trying to get more length from Touki and Newk and you can piggyback them with Anderson every 5th day. The point is there's certainly no need to keep Jackson AND O'Day for that kind of money if they're not going to be late-inning options - cut both of them loose and see if you can bring Greene back. Smith/Martin/Minter/Greene is plenty good enough that you can get by with Webb/Walker/Weigel/Ynoa/Sobotka as your mop-up guys and spend that money elsewhere, and that's before you even think about bringing guys like Tomlin, Matzek, and Erlin back.

The one thing this organization has arguably been better than anybody else at is turning those scrap-heap veteran arms into gold, and there will be plenty of them out there this winter.
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I don't want to read all that. I will say I don't mind O'Day at all for 3.5 million. As long as they are on 1-2 year deals I don't mind spending heavy on a bullpen.
 
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