Starting Pitching
- Thread starter nsacpi
- Start date
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
what would mess them up is uncertainty about who the bulk pitcher for a particular game would be...an opener is part of creating that uncertainty...but there has to be a lefty and a righty option for the bulk pitcher depending on how they set their lineup
The Dodgers aren't stupid enough to use their RHH lineup just because a LHP opener was used.
It is hard/impossible to set up multiple guys to be the "bulk pitcher" becasue those guys would have to prepare as if they were traditional SPs, so it would effectively burn 2 SPs in a single day.
The most effective strategy vs the Dodgers is probably piggyback opposite handed pitchers capable of going multiple innings (DK with Folty, Soroka with Newk, Julio with Fried, then a BP game), and switching to the 2nd pitcher in whichever PA is even moderately high leverage to maximize the PHing impact.
Another strategy might be to use an opener and bat the pitcher 3rd in home games with Freeman on the bench for the top half of the inning. This would allow the opener to face the top of the lineup with the platoon advantage, and then be PH for by Freeman in the bottom of the 1st as part of a double switch. In away games the opener pitcher would bat 6th so he could face the top of the lineup in the bottom of the 1st, and then be double switched out for a PHer in the top of the 2nd.
It is hard/impossible to set up multiple guys to be the "bulk pitcher" becasue those guys would have to prepare as if they were traditional SPs, so it would effectively burn 2 SPs in a single day.
The most effective strategy vs the Dodgers is probably piggyback opposite handed pitchers capable of going multiple innings (DK with Folty, Soroka with Newk, Julio with Fried, then a BP game), and switching to the 2nd pitcher in whichever PA is even moderately high leverage to maximize the PHing impact.
Another strategy might be to use an opener and bat the pitcher 3rd in home games with Freeman on the bench for the top half of the inning. This would allow the opener to face the top of the lineup with the platoon advantage, and then be PH for by Freeman in the bottom of the 1st as part of a double switch. In away games the opener pitcher would bat 6th so he could face the top of the lineup in the bottom of the 1st, and then be double switched out for a PHer in the top of the 2nd.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The time it would be easiest to have multiple options for bulk pitcher is game 1 of a series.
Looks like the Yankees may be using my piggyback idea in the postseason:
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/luis-severinos-electrifying-return-bolsters-yankees-rotation/
"By untraditional, Boone means a departure from the expectation that his starters will pitch as deep into games as possible before turning things over to the bullpen. Severino, Tanaka, Germán (whose 144.2 combined innings are 52.1 more than last year and 21 beyond his previous career high, set in 2017), Sabathia (who’s limping to the finish line, having just concluded his fourth stay on the injured list this season), and Happ (who’s battling biceps tendinitis) could all be used in piggyback type outings, not unlike what the Yankees did on September 12 against the Tigers, with Sabathia, in his latest return from the IL, throwing 3.1 innings and 56 pitches, and Germán following with four innings and 50 pitches. "
The Braves are arguably set up to do this as effectively as any team in MLB, and they will possibly be facing a team that takes advantage of platoon lineups more than any other team in MLB.
It seems like a no-brainer to use this strategy, and if the Braves are going to use it they need to start practicing it now...just like the Yankees are currently.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/luis-severinos-electrifying-return-bolsters-yankees-rotation/
"By untraditional, Boone means a departure from the expectation that his starters will pitch as deep into games as possible before turning things over to the bullpen. Severino, Tanaka, Germán (whose 144.2 combined innings are 52.1 more than last year and 21 beyond his previous career high, set in 2017), Sabathia (who’s limping to the finish line, having just concluded his fourth stay on the injured list this season), and Happ (who’s battling biceps tendinitis) could all be used in piggyback type outings, not unlike what the Yankees did on September 12 against the Tigers, with Sabathia, in his latest return from the IL, throwing 3.1 innings and 56 pitches, and Germán following with four innings and 50 pitches. "
The Braves are arguably set up to do this as effectively as any team in MLB, and they will possibly be facing a team that takes advantage of platoon lineups more than any other team in MLB.
It seems like a no-brainer to use this strategy, and if the Braves are going to use it they need to start practicing it now...just like the Yankees are currently.
chipchildress
Awaiting a Promotion
nothing is clear except without statcast data you are nothing.
also, this thread proves how wrong your guys usually are about everything.
using predictive stats to determine the past performance of pitchers is not exactly seeing the whole picture is it?
the computers spit out some preseason bull**** you all gladly stuck your names to and said the braves had no chance to win the division. because the computers are smarter than the mouth breathers! blah blah.
ya'll understand stats that bizarrely eliminate key parts of the game, but it's beyond clear that many of you don't understand people at all.
predicting the future is not the same as evaluating the present and past. yall really don't get this...
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I think the piggy-backing the Braves were doing in the minors was about innings management and not strategy, but you are correct the Braves have used that.
I agree with Enscheff. This year's Braves' rotation really had a lot of trouble getting past the sixth inning consistently. Only problem I see is that we lack a multi-inning LHP to tandem after a RHP unless they would use Fried in those situations. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to stretch Newcomb out over the next week. Curious to see which LHPs are kept on the post-season roster.
I agree with Enscheff. This year's Braves' rotation really had a lot of trouble getting past the sixth inning consistently. Only problem I see is that we lack a multi-inning LHP to tandem after a RHP unless they would use Fried in those situations. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to stretch Newcomb out over the next week. Curious to see which LHPs are kept on the post-season roster.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
Newk and Fried will be Yuge this postseason.
Its one of the only reasons I could see it being to the Braves advantage not putting Fried in the starting rotation.
He could go 2-3 innings when a starter falters or a tidy 1 inning in a late game scenario.
The way the game is going I really do think the future is going to move to more guys who are like high quality long relievers who pitch more frequently. They’ll be guys who in the past would have been competing for rotation spots. Starters are already working few innings and that taxes bullpens heavily when you’re using guys an inning or less at a time. Plus benches get chewed up with the extra pitchers.
Piggy backing the middle and back of rotations makes so much sense although I would be surprised if the Braves were an early adopter.
Piggy backing the middle and back of rotations makes so much sense although I would be surprised if the Braves were an early adopter.
There's hope.
We saw in the NLDS last year Snit get micromanaged when he uncharacteristically took Newcomb out early when we had a chance to get ahead in the game.
We saw in the NLDS last year Snit get micromanaged when he uncharacteristically took Newcomb out early when we had a chance to get ahead in the game.
GeorgiaGirl
NL Rookie of the Year
Outside Soroka if he looks strong, you probably should piggyback everybody else but that's a bridge too far for Snitker.
Soroka and Keuchel likely do traditional starts, then after that it's less clear.
Soroka and Keuchel likely do traditional starts, then after that it's less clear.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
In any close game it should be JMGM innings 6-9. No starter should have to go more than 5. The remaining bullpen management issues involve having to pull the starter before he has gone 5 innings and extra inning games. Within those two situations there is a subset of decisions having to do with using a pitcher you might have intentions of starting in a subsequent game. The decisions for the Cardinals series are pretty plain vanilla. The scope for unorthodox moves increases a lot if we face the Dodgers.
I still fear the old school in Snit will try to push Soroka, Keuchel, Folty/Fried to pitch 7-8 innings because old schoolers romanticize the starting pitcher going as close to the finish line as possible in October for the drama and testosterone proving.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I’m not sure what I just read but I am sure it’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read
To be clear...
You think MiLB teams were using opposite handed pairs of pitchers to face a lineup with heavy platoon stacking?
You don’t see the difference in these ideas?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It's Keuchel, Folty and Soroka in the Mets series, with the suggestion that those three will also start the first three games of the NLDS.
It is an interesting choice in light of the fact Fried has been our best starter in the second half. Fried did tail off some in September. But this mainly was due to a higher HR/FB rate. His peripherals in September remained very good: 8.2 K/9 and 1.8 BB/9.
It is an interesting choice in light of the fact Fried has been our best starter in the second half. Fried did tail off some in September. But this mainly was due to a higher HR/FB rate. His peripherals in September remained very good: 8.2 K/9 and 1.8 BB/9.
There is what have you done for me lately and what have you done for me yesterday.
Since 8/6 (when Folty came back) here are our starters xWOBA
Folty: .298
DK: .314
Fried: 322
Teheran: 329
Soroka: 353
Even going back for the starts in Sept Folty is in a class by himself, DK and Fried are about the same, with Soroka really tailing off. I can't fault the team starting Soroka over Fried though with how strong his overall year has been plus what he's done on the road.