Student loans

nsacpi said:
As I said it is an inefficient way to subsidize the educational system. But we can't stop their parents (or grandparents) from funding them. None of us are gonna refuse such generosity from a stranger.
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I don’t blame universities. They are hugely successful at accepting generosity.

I’m advocating that government make sure these full freighters (or their parents) fund their waste of time.
 
chop2chip said:
I don’t blame universities. They are hugely successful at accepting generosity.

I’m advocating that government make sure these full freighters (or their parents) fund their waste of time.
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They are called full freighters for a reason.
 
nsacpi said:
I live five minutes from a pretty good art museum. I see people from all walks of life enjoying the same exhibits I do. Sorry for the egalitarian take. Art is for everyone. Even construction workers and computer programmers.
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I support local governments funding museums. I don’t support federal or state governments funding art student degrees. I suspect the museum provides more positive externalities than the student.
 
cajunrevenge said:
My sarcasm detector is going off like crazy but I dont think you are being sarcastic.
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Not at all. When I think back to the classes in college that have most enriched my life they are the two classes I took in art history and music history. I double majored in math and economics, and benefited hugely from dabbling far outside those disciplines.

A couple summers ago I took an online class in the history of rock and roll. It was taught by a professor with a radical feminist Marxist perspective. It was one of the most fun things I've done (and educational). (And the experience was enhanced by the radical feminist Marxist perspective of the teacher). I never would have done something like that (or enjoyed it the way I did) if not for the interest in music history I developed while in college.
 
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chop2chip said:
I support local governments funding museums. I don’t support federal or state governments funding art student degrees. I suspect the museum provides more positive externalities than the student.
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But you know we aren't born with an appreciation for art. It obviously gets developed in all sorts of ways. I wouldn't knock computer science students having to go through the ordeal of taking some humanities classes. And I'm comfortable with the computer science department providing some cross-subsidies to those other departments.
 
nsacpi said:
But you know we aren't born with an appreciation for art. It obviously gets developed in all sorts of ways. I wouldn't knock computer science students having to go through the ordeal of taking some humanities classes. And I'm comfortable with the computer science department providing some cross-subsidies to those other departments.
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I’m not advocating for banning humanities only that they shouldn’t be for free or subsidized.

Like you said, people from all walks of life enjoy museums. We take our son to a science museum here in Austin that we have an annual pass too. He loves it. I really enjoyed going to the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam a few years back. I suspect the patrons to these places are a low percentage formally educated in art.
 
Funny that you mentioned the van Gogh museum. I'm taking some students to Amsterdam next spring. It will be mainly about economics but I'll be damned if some of those students don't come back with a lifelong love of van Gogh or Rembrandt. Gotta brainwash em while I got em.
 
nsacpi said:
Not at all. When I think back to the classes in college that have most enriched my life they are the two classes I took in art history and music history. I double majored in math and economics, and benefited hugely from dabbling far outside those disciplines.

A couple summers ago I took an online class in the history of rock and roll. It was taught by a professor with a radical feminist Marxist perspective. It was one of the most fun things I've done (and educational). (And the experience was enhanced by the radical feminist Marxist perspective of the teacher). I never would have done something like that (or enjoyed it the way I did) if not for the interest in music history I developed while in college.
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And provided zero productivity to society. Like most courses in humanities.
 
thethe said:
And provided zero productivity to society. Like most courses in humanities.
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rock and roll is big business

as is Picasso

and Andy Warhol (who has a bridge named after him in Pittsburgh!)

man does not live by bread alone

this may come as a shock to you but most musicians take this thang called lessons...and pay for them!!

even more shocking there are these thangs called academies of music and conservatories...i'm ok susidizing the educational careers of their students
 
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nsacpi said:
rock and roll is big business

as is Picasso

and Andy Warhol (who has a bridge named after him in Pittsburgh!)

man does not live by bread alone

this may come as a shock to you but most musicians take this thang called lessons...and pay for them!!
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Typically people are born with the gift and would be better served under a mentorship program and not a commercialized humanities department.
 
chop2chip said:
Not to be pedantic but the great artists usually studied under others. Almost all of them went to art school. Art is quite technical.
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Not in the modern structure with a bloated administrative structure within humanities. Direct mentorship is how it’s been done for centuries.
 
thethe said:
Not in the modern structure with a bloated administrative structure within humanities. Direct mentorship is how it’s been done for centuries.
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I challenge you to find more than 5 composers or painters of historical significance that didn’t attend a university. You can go back 500 years and you’ll see a pretty well worn path to greatness (not without irony most of these men died in great poverty. Perhaps their modern counterparts can learn more from their example).
 
Savannah (hometown of board grand poobah) has the Savannah College of Art and Design. Somewhat overpriced and overrated. What can I say.
 
chop2chip said:
I challenge you to find more than 5 composers or painters of historical significance that didn’t attend a university. You can go back 500 years and you’ll see a pretty well worn path to greatness (not without irony most of these men died in great poverty. Perhaps their modern counterparts can learn more from their example).
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Do you think universities of 50 years ago looked anything like the monstrosities we see today? It’s the whole point of this conversation.
 
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