TDA extended

[clvclv]

Why do you say that, about Freeman?

They've now got Acuna, Ozzie, Riley, d'Arnaud, Fried, Anderson, and Ynoa all locked up through at least 2024, and with the huge SS class and his hometown hero identity, Dansby's likely going to accept a reasonable extension offer if he gets one. If Freddie's willing to be flexible at all about the last year or two of a deal containing vesting options not only will he be able to play out his career here, he'll get to do it with the core he's been a huge part of building.

It's fair to argue whether it's a good idea or not, but I just feel like this signals that AA feels like this is his Astros-like core and he thinks this group is good enough to win more than one title IF you can surround them with solid secondary pieces.

 

[chop2chip]

I think this is probably fine, but I have to say, this is betting on an injury prone player who's going to be 33 next February at a physically demanding defensive position in the middle of a pretty terrible season. It's a risk.

We are betting TDA produces 1 WAR. It’s very low risk with upside if he stays healthy.

 

[chop2chip]

3/49 left on Ozuna is such a bummer, man.

We have great contracts on good players across the board and that one just sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Russ2dollas]

3/49 left on Ozuna is such a bummer, man.

We have great contracts on good players across the board and that one just sticks out like a sore thumb.

YEs. Not sure AA could have predicted domestic violence though.

I think there is a possibility, a reasonable one, that next's year salary we won't have to pay. I think he'll get suspended for all of next year.

Maybe they can pay FF Ozuna's money next year to lower the cost as he gets older. Give him 40 million next year, why not? Not my money.

 

[PawPawMaxwell]

Still not convinced FF will be a Brave next year.
TDA deal great at this time. Surprised at the amout just a bit.
Really believe that the new CBA will alleviate the Ozuna situation.

 

[Russ2dollas]

I do not think that TDA hits enough to be a DH. I see that all over the internet already.

He's a good hitter....for a catcher. YOu don't want him as your DH. Maybe last year you'd let him DH but that's not him, especially not as he gets older.

The Braves are likely to have top 10 catcher WAR while investing less than 10 million in the position. That is a win. But Contreras, TDA and SL do not hit well enough that you want to DH any of them.

 

[chop2chip]

YEs. Not sure AA could have predicted domestic violence though.

I think there is a possibility, a reasonable one, that next's year salary we won't have to pay. I think he'll get suspended for all of next year.

Maybe they can pay FF Ozuna's money next year to lower the cost as he gets older. Give him 40 million next year, why not? Not my money.

I was really happy with the Ozuna resigning. Obviously, no one could have predicted what happened next.

Its really odd that the expectation is the Braves can never play Ozuna again, but they should still pay him. It feels like the current system disproportionately punishes the club.

 

[NYCBrave]

They've now got Acuna, Ozzie, Riley, d'Arnaud, Fried, Anderson, and Ynoa all locked up through at least 2024, and with the huge SS class and his hometown hero identity, Dansby's likely going to accept a reasonable extension offer if he gets one. If Freddie's willing to be flexible at all about the last year or two of a deal containing vesting options not only will he be able to play out his career here, he'll get to do it with the core he's been a huge part of building.

It's fair to argue whether it's a good idea or not, but I just feel like this signals that AA feels like this is his Astros-like core and he thinks this group is good enough to win more than one title IF you can surround them with solid secondary pieces.

I really don't see how AA can afford to let Freeman walk, I mean what is the alternative? I don't see us being the highest bidders for any of the SS, and each of them come with risks of their own.

 

[DirkPiggler]

YEs. Not sure AA could have predicted domestic violence though.

I think there is a possibility, a reasonable one, that next's year salary we won't have to pay. I think he'll get suspended for all of next year.

Maybe they can pay FF Ozuna's money next year to lower the cost as he gets older. Give him 40 million next year, why not? Not my money.

That seems like a smart way to handle it if Freddie is insisting on a five year deal in the 140-150 range. Front load the deal while Acuña is still inexpensive, and make the salary more accurately match the expected production. Something like:

2022: $45MM
2023: $30MM
2024: $25MM
2025: $20MM
2026: $18MM
2027: Team option with a $2MM buyout.

Obviously if Freddie would take less money/fewer years you'd do it, but if Freddie insists on five guaranteed years and Ozuna isn't being paid next year, this might be a way to satisfy both sides.

 

[PawPawMaxwell]

What if it is simply a matter of choice that Freddie decides. It is a given that family is at the top of his priority list and it is known that his family is in Southern CA. It is a known that A J Preller is reactionary and it is known that Arte Moreno is a free spending owner.

 

[Russ2dollas]

I was really happy with the Ozuna resigning. Obviously, no one could have predicted what happened next.

Its really odd that the expectation is the Braves can never play Ozuna again, but they should still pay him. It feels like the current system disproportionately punishes the club.

Yea. It's a guaranteed contract. Hard to void it b/c it's going to be a misdemeanor or no formal charge/not guilty. So its the club saying his behavior is beyond the pale. There is a slippery slope there.

I would like to see the CBA allow for some out for teams. We've had Olivera and Ozuna now. Just not sure how they get through all the details.

I feel like if they have to pay him, they should be able to make him earn it some how. Make him the best paid janitor ever. He can clean AA's sh!t for 15 million a year or he can retire.

 

[Enscheff]

The Braves usually have 2 good catchers because they follow the Dodgers model. TDA is now one of those catchers the next 2 years. Lango will be given the chance to be the other one, with someone like Vogt brought in as insurance.

This deal is perfectly fine for a roughly half-time catcher.

 

[Russ2dollas]

That seems like a smart way to handle it if Freddie is insisting on a five year deal in the 140-150 range. Front load the deal while Acuña is still inexpensive, and make the salary more accurately match the expected production. Something like:

2022: $45MM
2023: $30MM
2024: $25MM
2025: $20MM
2026: $18MM
2027: Team option with a $2MM buyout.

Obviously if Freddie would take less money/fewer years you'd do it, but if Freddie insists on five guaranteed years and Ozuna isn't being paid next year, this might be a way to satisfy both sides.

I love the idea of front loading contracts. FOr the player you get the present value of money and for the team you are likely getting the most WAR when you are paying the most $.

Seems like GMs would rather push the money back when it is likely to be the next GM's problem.

 

[Russ2dollas]

The Braves usually have 2 good catchers because they follow the Dodgers model. TDA is now one of those catchers the next 2 years. Lango will be given the chance to be the other one, with someone like Vogt brought in as insurance.

This deal is perfectly fine for a roughly half-time catcher.

Agree on TDA. I think you are way too low on Contreras.

I think SL is going to get a full year in AA this year and a full year in AAA next year. SL will be our catcher insurance.

 

[chop2chip]

Yea. It's a guaranteed contract. Hard to void it b/c it's going to be a misdemeanor or no formal charge/not guilty. So its the club saying his behavior is beyond the pale. There is a slippery slope there.

I would like to see the CBA allow for some out for teams. We've had Olivera and Ozuna now. Just not sure how they get through all the details.

I feel like if they have to pay him, they should be able to make him earn it some how. Make him the best paid janitor ever. He can clean AA's sh!t for 15 million a year or he can retire.

Didn’t we send Kawakami to AA to ride minor league buses to see if it would break him until he went back to Japan?

Seems like a way of achieving that.

 

[chop2chip]

I love the idea of front loading contracts. FOr the player you get the present value of money and for the team you are likely getting the most WAR when you are paying the most $.

Seems like GMs would rather push the money back when it is likely to be the next GM's problem.

The problem with front loading money is it costs you the opportunity to take full roster advantage when your core players are still pre-Arb. It’s easier to squeeze that 1-2 year rental player.

It sort of comes down to maximizing your window vs lengthening your window.

 

[clvclv]

I do not think that TDA hits enough to be a DH. I see that all over the internet already.

He's a good hitter....for a catcher. YOu don't want him as your DH. Maybe last year you'd let him DH but that's not him, especially not as he gets older.

The Braves are likely to have top 10 catcher WAR while investing less than 10 million in the position. That is a win. But Contreras, TDA and SL do not hit well enough that you want to DH any of them.

None of them will be a "full-time DH" - I don't think AA plans to have one of those. It simply destroys your flexibility. What using them there every-so-often allows you to do is keep them a lot more healthy while taking advantage of platoon matchups. One of them (most likely d'Arnaud or Contreras) can play 1B every so often to give Freddie a day as the DH and actually allow you to really stack your lineup against lefties. If Adrianza's brought back or Shewmake starts moving fairly quickly you have someone capable of giving ALL of Ozzie/Dansby/Riley a day as your DH. I fully expect at least two from the group of Pederson/Duvall/Rosario/Soler to be re-signed (or have their options picked up), giving you more DH options.

If one of the Catchers is on an offensive tear, you give them ABs as a DH once in a while - if they're struggling, you just give them days off.

 

[Russ2dollas]

The problem with front loading money is it costs you the opportunity to take full roster advantage when your core players are still pre-Arb. It’s easier to squeeze that 1-2 year rental player.

It sort of comes down to maximizing your window vs lengthening your window.

sometimes. But not always. If you plan on keeping home grown guys later it might make sense.

You can fill in gaps with vets easy. The current market is very skewed to the buyer for non-impact vets.

 

[clvclv]

Didn’t we send Kawakami to AA to ride minor league buses to see if it would break him until he went back to Japan?

Seems like a way of achieving that.

Kawakami had options available - he'd never played in the minors before he was signed. Ozuna doesn't.

 

[Russ2dollas]

None of them will be a "full-time DH" - I don't think AA plans to have one of those. It simply destroys your flexibility. What using them there every-so-often allows you to do is keep them a lot more healthy while taking advantage of platoon matchups. One of them (most likely d'Arnaud or Contreras) can play 1B every so often to give Freddie a day as the DH and actually allow you to really stack your lineup against lefties. If Adrianza's brought back or Shewmake starts moving fairly quickly you have someone capable of giving ALL of Ozzie/Dansby/Riley a day as your DH. I fully expect at least two from the group of Pederson/Duvall/Rosario/Soler to be re-signed (or have their options picked up), giving you more DH options.

If one of the Catchers is on an offensive tear, you give them ABs as a DH once in a while - if they're struggling, you just give them days off.

I think AA signing Ozuna suggests you are incorrect in your statement that AA doesn't want a full time DH.

My point is if you get an extra bat in the line up you want a masher. Not any of our Catchers. You want a guy who just hits. Some teams will rotate guys time to time. But you want a guy/rotation where you are getting 850-900+ OPS.

You are looking at an Ozuna, Soler, Cruz, Encarnacion, JD Martinez, etc. TDA isn't in the same class as a hitter. Outside of last year he's just not.