The 2018 Midterms

sturg33 said:
I don't know what else to say. The government is forcing a person to adhere to non scientific language.

I don't agree with it. I don't agree when schools suspend students for not saying the pledge of allegiance. I wouldn't agree with a school in Texas forcing it's teachers to wear a MAGA hat.

I don't agree with the state coercing us into state-approved speech.

Apparently you do. I wish I were surprised
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I think in this particular case the rules the state is promulgating for its employees are reasonable. My guess is they would probably pass legal muster as well. And your views on what is scientific and not scientific are not exactly the received wisdom on these matters.
 
Julio3000 said:
I’d like you to expound in this a little.
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The kid is a biological female.

In our language, we refer to females as she/her.

So, the teacher decided he didn't want to call a biological female a biological male.

One would think the party of science would agree.

Either way, i now understand that you are support the state coercing speech or pay the consequences.

Apologies for bringing this up. I know this doesn't meet the chopcountry-worthy discussion criteria julio has set.
 
nsacpi said:
I think in this particular case the rules the state is promulgating for its employees are reasonable. My guess is they would probably pass legal muster as well. And your views on what is scientific and not scientific are not exactly the received wisdom on these matters.
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Is it fair to assume then, that you would support a hypothetical school forcing its teachers to wear MAGA hats?
 
nsacpi said:
you've topped yourself in terms of obtuseness
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I'm extending your logic to show why it's wrong.

Just as it would be wrong to make a teacher where a MAGA hat, it's wrong to make a teacher say something he/she doesn't believe in.

That is what is happening here. You are defending this lunacy
 
sturg33 said:
I'm extending your logic to show why it's wrong.

Just as it would be wrong to make a teacher where a MAGA hat, it's wrong to make a teacher say something he/she doesn't believe in.

That is what is happening here. You are defending this lunacy
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I had a high school chemistry teacher who was a young-earth creationist. I had an AP American History teacher who was an out-and-out Confederate apologist and a supporter of the League of the South.

I think we covered this ground years ago in the discussion of the county clerk in Kentucky who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Your personal beliefs are likely to be to some degree—depending on jurisdiction—subordinated to your obligation to your employer, if you wish to retain employment. If your employer is the state, there tends to be a greater burden. You have rights in this area (in that case the RFRA was one of the wellsprings) depending on the circumstances, but it’s not carte blanche, and that’s probably a good thing, on balance.

A MAGA hat is a poor analogy, as that’s pretty clearly going to run afoul of any number of statutes.

Do you think that, in a public school classroom, you shouldn’t have to say anything you don’t believe? What if you believe that rape should be legal or that libertarians should euthanized? Should you be able to be “forced” to contradict your beliefs?
 
I'm not sure if you've read the story... but the school is firing him because he's avoiding using a pronoun.

He's not intentionally using the wrong pronoun. He's avoiding pronouns altogether. This made the student upset.

The state is forcing him to use language which is frankly imaginary and non-scientific. It would be like the state forcing a teacher to say that dinosaurs never existed, or else would be fired. I'm guessing you'd have a problem with that.

When you're done ignoring all the above, take a step back and contemplate the fact that we're discussing the firing of a (by all accounts) upstanding and highly respected person because of the use of PRONOUNS

This is where we are now... arguing and firing people about pronouns.

That's progress, I guess.
 
We have all these things kids arent allowed to do because they are deemed not mentally developed enough but apparently they are wise and mature enough to change their gender.......



I dont have an issue with firing the teacher on the surface. Where you work is voluntary. If you dont agree with the policy and rules then go work somewhere else. I would guess this teacher started before this was a policy in which case I believe the school has an obligation to give the teacher a reasonable time period to seek employment somewhere else. I dont know based on the information I have found whether that happened or not. When I was a delivery driver we had a mandatory meeting where we were told in two weeks they were significantly cutting our pay. 2 weeks is bull****. We saw it as a deliberate attempt to force us into the new pay structure by not giving us time to get another job. What we did was when the new pay structure came into effect we went into work and refused to take deliveries citing that was not the rate we were hired under. When customers called back to see why they werent getting their deliveries we told them why. When the District Manager came by we quit before he could fire us and told him we were returning the favor they did to us. Cost them around 40,000 dollars in lost sales before they got fully staffed. The day after we quit they started using District Managers and Area Coaches to deliver at that store so I ordered the a 45$ order online for cash and refused to answer the door when the driver came by to waste as much of their time as possible.
 
sturg33 said:
I'm not sure if you've read the story... but the school is firing him because he's avoiding using a pronoun.

He's not intentionally using the wrong pronoun. He's avoiding pronouns altogether. This made the student upset.

The state is forcing him to use language which is frankly imaginary and non-scientific. It would be like the state forcing a teacher to say that dinosaurs never existed, or else would be fired. I'm guessing you'd have a problem with that.

When you're done ignoring all the above, take a step back and contemplate the fact that we're discussing the firing of a (by all accounts) upstanding and highly respected person because of the use of PRONOUNS

This is where we are now... arguing and firing people about pronouns.

That's progress, I guess.
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I think we’ve been down this road before, but nevertheless. Pronouns aren’t science. I doubt that scientists who study the biology of sexuality would be comfortable with your conclusions, and I’m certain that studiers of gender identity would not be. In all the times that we’ve had this dumb conversation, you’ve never gotten over conflating biological sex with gender.

Misgendering someone is neither brave nor transgressive not even necessarily empirically correct, considering the nature of gender pronouns as a social construct to some degree reflective of societal norms. Societal norms change, and in this case they have, regardless of your acquiescence. So it’s difficult for me to feel sympathy for someone who cannot take a step that costs them literally nothing but may be quite significant to the other party.
 
He didn't misgender.

He just decided he wasn't going to say something that he didn't believe was true.

I'm not sure why that's controversial... one would think that's admirable.

But our society today is one I admittedly am having trouble understanding.

It's weird enough to me that a 9th grader is having gender reassignment surgey, when we know the suicide rate is astronomical for these people yet we seem to encourage people to do it.

Then we have to tell a teacher to ignore everything he has been taught to accommodate this one specific student... forcing him to use language.

Then we come here to argue about pronouns bc that's the society we have now.

Anyhow, I understand what side youre on, just not sure why.
 
I do forget only board approved topics are Russia and illegitimate GOP victories.

Silly to talk about the state coercing SJW approved speech.

Carey on
 
smoltzie29 said:
I do forget only board approved topics are Russia and illegitimate GOP victories.

Silly to talk about the state coercing SJW approved speech.

Carey on
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this teacher fellow's free speech has not been abridged...he can say or not say whatever he wants
 
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