The Adam Duv-awful Thread

striker42

striker42

Well-known member
Duvall is now 4 for 40 as a Brave. That's a .100 BA. But at least he's also shown no power (all 4 hits have been singles), poor plate discipline (just 3 BBs), and atrocious defense.

Seriously, how long can we keep this guy around? He's a marginal player when he's not actively giving games away. Right now he's absolutely killing us.
 
It was always questionable to pay extra for Duvall just because he had extra control. Paying retail for role players under control seems like a poor use of resources. That was my beef with the move, even though it was an overall solid acquisition.

There's no reason to dump him since he's cheap and there's plenty of room on the roster, but he has likely moved way down the PH pecking order. Now that the Braves have 3 catchers on the roster, expect to see Flowers, Suzuki and Culberson to get the bulk of the PH appearances vs LHP.
 
Enscheff said:
It was always questionable to pay extra for Duvall just because he had extra control. Paying retail for role players under control seems like a poor use of resources. That was my beef with the move, even though it was an overall solid acquisition.

There's no reason to dump him since he's cheap and there's plenty of room on the roster, but he has likely moved way down the PH pecking order. Now that the Braves have 3 catchers on the roster, expect to see Flowers, Suzuki and Culberson to get the bulk of the PH appearances vs LHP.
Click to expand...

Results aside, was Lucas Sims really paying full price for Duvall?
 
Enscheff said:
It was always questionable to pay extra for Duvall just because he had extra control. Paying retail for role players under control seems like a poor use of resources. That was my beef with the move, even though it was an overall solid acquisition.

There's no reason to dump him since he's cheap and there's plenty of room on the roster, but he has likely moved way down the PH pecking order. Now that the Braves have 3 catchers on the roster, expect to see Flowers, Suzuki and Culberson to get the bulk of the PH appearances vs LHP.
Click to expand...

Duvall has to be nontendered this offseason. There's no reason to expend any resources on him next season.

Also, I'm not sure he has moved himself down. A rational manager would let him rot on the bench but that's not what we have.
 
Yeah, he'll be somewhere near 2 million next year. Really doubt he is non-tendered.

Hopefully it's just a mechanical flaw they can be fixed. Wonder if he has a brother-in-law we could get on the team somehow?
 
I definitely think he's back next year. He's been woeful with Atlanta, but I think he could be a very valuable piece on next year's bench. Going from starting (where he was struggling) to hitting on a nearly pinch-hit basis isn't easy.
 
Duvall falls into the category of players who has to play every day to have a chance at being good, but may not be good enough to play every day (you following?). The thing that has saved him in the past somewhat is that he appeared to be able to play decent defense. He just hasn't been good here, but it likely hasn't been easy for him to adjust to an extreme part-time role after playing pretty much every day in Cincinnati.

I don't know whether he will be back or not. They first have to make a decision on Markakis before moving to second tier decisions.
 
Duvall's hitting struggles could maybe be understandable. He's adjusting to not playing every day, he's on a contender for the first time, he's probably had some bad BABIP luck, etc. But a few things still puzzle me.

First is his power outage. Even if he's getting unlucky with balls hit at fielders, he should still have driven a couple out of the park by now. His 4 hits have all been singles. The eye test hasn't been kind to him either. From what I've seen of his ABs, he's not really driving the ball at all. Lots of lazy fly balls.

Second, his defense has been putrid. Yesterday was a great example.

Honestly, Duvall has probably cost us 2 games with his play and he hasn't even played that much. I'm hoping he'll rebound and be the player he was for the Reds but the more he struggles the more we might be watching a Dan Uggla-like collapse of a player.
 
Just because Duvall has been awful for us since his arrival doesn't mean he's an awful player. The initial consensus was that this was a solid trade given his career numbers, including the experts. A whole lot of hindsight heroes in this thread right now. I have a hard time saying a player should be non-tendered based on 40 at-bats.
 
zbhargrove said:
Just because Duvall has been awful for us since his arrival doesn't mean he's an awful player. The initial consensus was that this was a solid trade given his career numbers, including the experts. A whole lot of hindsight heroes in this thread right now. I have a hard time saying a player should be non-tendered based on 40 at-bats.
Click to expand...

I thought it was an okay add when we made it. I thought Wisler and Sims had more talent than some were giving them credit for so I don't think it was a steal, but I thought Duvall could add some power.

I also thought Uggla was going to be a great add and he ended up collapsing immediately. Duvall just turned 30 and has never been what you would call a complete player. It's entirely possible that his tools have started eroding and, with him already having deep flaws as a hitter, he's experienced a complete collapse.

The thing that really concerns me is that his numbers aren't just terrible, he looks absolutely AWFUL out there. He's not spraying bullets all over the field. He's having bad ABs and making weak outs.

If Duvall continues to show nothing at the plate and especially if he keeps screwing up in the field, I don't even feel comfortable putting $2 million into him for next year.
 
striker42 said:
I thought it was an okay add when we made it. I thought Wisler and Sims had more talent than some were giving them credit for so I don't think it was a steal, but I thought Duvall could add some power.

I also thought Uggla was going to be a great add and he ended up collapsing immediately. Duvall just turned 30 and has never been what you would call a complete player. It's entirely possible that his tools have started eroding and, with him already having deep flaws as a hitter, he's experienced a complete collapse.

The thing that really concerns me is that his numbers aren't just terrible, he looks absolutely AWFUL out there. He's not spraying bullets all over the field. He's having bad ABs and making weak outs.

If Duvall continues to show nothing at the plate and especially if he keeps screwing up in the field, I don't even feel comfortable putting $2 million into him for next year.
Click to expand...

Yup... no one's saying he hasn't been awful, but I do still think its a pretty small sample size. I don't have a comfort level on what to pay him or not, though... its not my money... I could care less
 
mqt said:
Results aside, was Lucas Sims really paying full price for Duvall?
Click to expand...

You know the cost wasn't just Sims, and you know Sims, Wisler and Tucker all had some value, just like Duvall did.

I would have rather seen the Braves get a rental RHH for Sims or wisler...or a LHH earlier for some of that package.

In the end the issue isn't the cost. The issue is the process AA used. That process entailed paying for extra control over a role player, and that is a faulty process because role players are easy to acquire at any time.

Now we are seeing just how little value control over a role player is when Duvall becomes a non-tender candidate.
 
striker42 said:
I thought it was an okay add when we made it. I thought Wisler and Sims had more talent than some were giving them credit for so I don't think it was a steal, but I thought Duvall could add some power.

I also thought Uggla was going to be a great add and he ended up collapsing immediately. Duvall just turned 30 and has never been what you would call a complete player. It's entirely possible that his tools have started eroding and, with him already having deep flaws as a hitter, he's experienced a complete collapse.

The thing that really concerns me is that his numbers aren't just terrible, he looks absolutely AWFUL out there. He's not spraying bullets all over the field. He's having bad ABs and making weak outs.

If Duvall continues to show nothing at the plate and especially if he keeps screwing up in the field, I don't even feel comfortable putting $2 million into him for next year.
Click to expand...

It would not surprise me to see him included as a smaller piece in a trade in the off season. Would kind of allow the FO to save face and say they got some value for him, while moving on.
 
Enscheff said:
You know the cost wasn't just Sims, and you know Sims, Wisler and Tucker all had some value, just like Duvall did.

I would have rather seen the Braves get a rental RHH for Sims or wisler...or a LHH earlier for some of that package.

In the end the issue isn't the cost. The issue is the process AA used. That process entailed paying for extra control over a role player, and that is a faulty process because role players are easy to acquire at any time.

Now we are seeing just how little value control over a role player is when Duvall becomes a non-tender candidate.
Click to expand...

I’d venture that Wisler was well on his way to exiting the organization, and we already bought Tucker back, so it’s not like he had much value. I just don’t see any scenario in which we would have found a rental whose price was tangibly lower than Duvall’s.
 
mqt said:
I’d venture that Wisler was well on his way to exiting the organization, and we already bought Tucker back, so it’s not like he had much value. I just don’t see any scenario in which we would have found a rental whose price was tangibly lower than Duvall’s.
Click to expand...

OK, you're missing the point, and getting stuck on the actual cost of Duvall.

The Braves were specifically targeting role players with team control at the deadline. It was stated many times.

Any player with additional team control is going to cost more than an equivalent player who is a rental. This is a known fact of player valuation.

It is a bad process to pay more for a role player due to the fact he is under team control longer than a rental, no matter what the actual cost of any particular move ends up being. We need to evaluate the process, not the results.
 
Enscheff said:
OK, you're missing the point, and getting stuck on the actual cost of Duvall.

The Braves were specifically targeting role players with team control at the deadline. It was stated many times.

Any player with additional team control is going to cost more than an equivalent player who is a rental. This is a known fact of player valuation.

It is a bad process to pay more for a role player due to the fact he is under team control longer than a rental, no matter what the actual cost of any particular move ends up being. We need to evaluate the process, not the results.
Click to expand...

I find myself agreeing with Scheffy here. The Braves wanted Duvall because:

1. He was perceived as a bench upgrade.
2. He had control beyond this year.

They were planning for next year at the same time as they were upgrading this year. They were clearly willing to pay a little more for a good bat with future control.

They obviously didn't expect Duvall to totally suck this year. I still think he will be included as a piece of a trade in the off season. I suspect they are ready to move on from him and look at other options, but want to be able to say they got some value for him even if it is a bit limited.
 
mfree80 said:
I find myself agreeing with Scheffy here. The Braves wanted Duvall because:

1. He was perceived as a bench upgrade.
2. He had control beyond this year.

They were planning for next year at the same time as they were upgrading this year. They were clearly willing to pay a little more for a good bat with future control.

They obviously didn't expect Duvall to totally suck this year. I still think he will be included as a piece of a trade in the off season. I suspect they are ready to move on from him and look at other options, but want to be able to say they got some value for him even if it is a bit limited.
Click to expand...


Regardless of how Duvall ends up playing, I think it was a pretty good price the Braves got.

I can question why they chose to address that specific position, but this was two clubs selling low in effort to try and address their relative weaknesses.
 
Enscheff said:
You know the cost wasn't just Sims, and you know Sims, Wisler and Tucker all had some value, just like Duvall did.

I would have rather seen the Braves get a rental RHH for Sims or wisler...or a LHH earlier for some of that package.

In the end the issue isn't the cost. The issue is the process AA used. That process entailed paying for extra control over a role player, and that is a faulty process because role players are easy to acquire at any time.

Now we are seeing just how little value control over a role player is when Duvall becomes a non-tender candidate.
Click to expand...

This. Duvall was an almost 30 year old role player who already was clearly in decline. Future control meant nothing.

I think the Braves also might have gotten a bit caught up in who Duvall was before this year and not what Duvall is now. A 27 year old Duvall in his prime is an entirely different animal than a 30 year old Duvall rapidly heading towards being a minor leaguer again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top