I agree. The Fredi extension doesn't really bother me because we're not planning to compete anyway. I hated the Olivera deal and still mostly do, but I've liked most everything else we've done. I think it's clear we're going with a long-term rebuild; I just wonder why we brought in Markakis, Olivera, and Aybar, unless it's to save some face with the fan base (not working) or to make sure we have a high enough payroll.
The Atlanta Braves FO
- Thread starter Horsehide Harry
- Start date
I agree. The Fredi extension doesn't really bother me because we're not planning to compete anyway. I hated the Olivera deal and still mostly do, but I've liked most everything else we've done. I think it's clear we're going with a long-term rebuild; I just wonder why we brought in Markakis, Olivera, and Aybar, unless it's to save some face with the fan base (not working) or to make sure we have a high enough payroll.
Then let's re-title the thread. Some suggestions:
"All-Purpose FO Bitching Session #37"
"I Haven't Scored a Date With a Woman Since Leyritz Lifted Wohlers' Hanging Slider"
"JS Killed My Dog"
"Forum Offering PayPal Credit to Mop Up Millwood1Hitter's Vented Bile"
"How About We Re-Sign Jason & Justin?"
I'd be all but willing to guarantee that if Miller is traded for Pederson that decision was made by Coppy. Call it "influenced" by him , whatever you want. Chances are much better than average that neither of the other Johns would give up that level Pitcher until at least seeing whether Pederson can actually make adjustments better than he did for the last 4+ months of last season.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Who hated Ozzie Virgil? All of baseball? Really?
I would think I would have heard that.
I would think I would have heard that.
The exact phrase was "one of the more disliked players."
Tracy Jones, who probably WAS the most hated player in baseball, received some chin music from Jim Acker. Ozzie Virgil said, "go get him if you want him."
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
My point with this thread was to point out that all of baseball simply assumes that a JS/JH led team will know what they are doing when conducting a re-build right? Because they are baseball geniuses right? But, if you look below the surface that is simply not true. JS, at least with the Braves, for 25 years, has not had to preside over a true re-build. That's to his credit. But, the foundation of players was already in place when he arrived. Hart at least did have a hand in building the Indians but in a completely different way centered around hitting.
So, this whole re-build is really on the shoulders of Coppy, but I don't think either JS nor JH are letting Coppy drive without the training wheels yet. Both have made statements in the Press that severely limit what Coppy can do -"We intend to compete in 2016," "We won't go through another year like 2015." etc. when anyone with a baseball brain can look at the team an see that it would take $50-$75M worth of expenditure to fill all the holes, which isn't in the cards. And now Coppy has painted himself into a corner by publicly declaring players "untouchable" such as Freddie, and while that may be true, you don't announce that. It's like playing 5 card stud and telling your opponents that one of your cards is the 6 of hearts. It doesn't give away your whole hand but it does provide information that can be used against you.
My biggest complaint is that there appears to be no real formalized plan, just a general rebuild while retooling philosophy. It starts for me with the bizarre signing of Markakis which isn't something you do if you are rebuilding and compounds with the delay in trading Grilli, the acquisition of Olivera (who will be 35 YO for god's sake when this team is potentially good again) and the continued insistence of trying to be better in 2016 (the only way it happens is to sign a number of veteran players who will tie up payroll and be long gone by the time the target date for the completion of the rebuild rolls around).
When you have a house with a crumbling foundation, the best thing to do is tear the house down, put down a NEW foundation and build a good house. Spending money, time and effort on trying to prop the house up and hammering on the doors and windows so they will close is just foolhardy and ultimately doomed.
So, this whole re-build is really on the shoulders of Coppy, but I don't think either JS nor JH are letting Coppy drive without the training wheels yet. Both have made statements in the Press that severely limit what Coppy can do -"We intend to compete in 2016," "We won't go through another year like 2015." etc. when anyone with a baseball brain can look at the team an see that it would take $50-$75M worth of expenditure to fill all the holes, which isn't in the cards. And now Coppy has painted himself into a corner by publicly declaring players "untouchable" such as Freddie, and while that may be true, you don't announce that. It's like playing 5 card stud and telling your opponents that one of your cards is the 6 of hearts. It doesn't give away your whole hand but it does provide information that can be used against you.
My biggest complaint is that there appears to be no real formalized plan, just a general rebuild while retooling philosophy. It starts for me with the bizarre signing of Markakis which isn't something you do if you are rebuilding and compounds with the delay in trading Grilli, the acquisition of Olivera (who will be 35 YO for god's sake when this team is potentially good again) and the continued insistence of trying to be better in 2016 (the only way it happens is to sign a number of veteran players who will tie up payroll and be long gone by the time the target date for the completion of the rebuild rolls around).
When you have a house with a crumbling foundation, the best thing to do is tear the house down, put down a NEW foundation and build a good house. Spending money, time and effort on trying to prop the house up and hammering on the doors and windows so they will close is just foolhardy and ultimately doomed.
rico43
<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
Fair to say that most champions are built with some degree of good fortune. Let's face it, Pendleton could have been Uggla, and Uggla could have been the second coming of Pendleton. This is why all GMs are evetually fired.
rico43
<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
Markakis, like it or not, was a terrific signing. We have seen him at his weakest, coming back from the neck surgery, but this is a potential 200-hit guy who plays every day. Maybe he isn't highlight film defense, but there has to be something, however small, you can count on in an everyday lineup. Aybar also fits that description. Freeman, unfortunately, does not. If you have two sound big leaguers in your lineup, it affords you the chance to try things in other positions. What these guys are being paid is irrelevant. Too many people here have become obsessed with every dollar that is spent or not spent. It's a futile exercise because there's no way we can know every dollar that is going out of coming in.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
The Markakis deal was not a wise use of the money UNLESS you planned on competing. No other way around that. Sure, he's a great clubhouse guy, blah, blah, blah. But those guys are a dime a dozen (K Johnson being an example).
When you are rebuilding and obviously so, that $11M would be better used to bring back talent that might actually be here when the team is targeted to be good again. There are lots of different ways that might be done such as: take on multiple guys who are trying to bounce back, who, if they do, would have exceptional trade value. An example of this would be a guy like Latos (Bud Norris also fits, Happ last year, etc). Or you could take on another teams bad contract as long as additional talent comes along with it. An example of that would be the Arizona trade. Or take on a guy who might bounce back from a down year and prove valuable, Trumbo if he gets DFA would fit.
The whole "getting veteran guys to show young guys how to play the right way" is overblown IMO. What are you paying minor league coaches for?
I don't care what we're spending on them, and Olivera's the only one I'm really upset about...I'm just saying they don't really line up with our other moves. I acknowledged that they may have been made to save face or to keep payroll up enough, but Markakis being a consistent part of the lineup is more meaningless than his salary.