The Biden Presidency

Those that earn their principal source of income from market speculation should pay taxes in line with those that earn from the sweat of their brow.
 
sturg33 said:
If your goal is to raise tax revenue, why would you make a law that does the opposite.

Seems your goal here is just to punish people
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Your example provided though is kind of manipulative on my opinion because of the dates used and what stage the market was at at that time.

Ultimately, the ones that make their income from market speculation will continue to do so despite the increased tax rates.

What will they do with their money otherwise?
 
thethe said:
Your example provided though is kind of manipulative on my opinion because of the dates used and what stage the market was at at that time.

Ultimately, the ones that make their income from market speculation will continue to do so despite the increased tax rates.

What will they do with their money otherwise?
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My examples are the real world examples we have. Not cherry picked.

Many idle class people retire as millionaires thanks to their retirement investments.

You wanting to punish a small % of speculators does more damage to the people you aim to help
 
But you don’t think those real world examples have context. Specifically the market cycle at that time?
 
The market was almost at the end of its cycle then. I’m not sure what the politics were 5-7 years prior but that particular year saw fewer gains because many people Probabaly took losses who got into the market the five years prior.

I’m not saying conceptually you’re wrong. I just don’t agree with the specific example you gave.
 
The examples I gave are the only examples on the book.

When rates were raised, revenue fell.

When rates were lowered, revenue increased.

These are just facts.

I'm not worried about a tiny amount of speculators... I'm worried about increasing opportunities for the hundreds of millions Americans who rely on market gains for their retirement.
 
sturg33 said:
If you reduce the incentive to invest, you will attract less buyers, which can force prices down.
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There is some of that. Taxing profits has less of an effect on investment decisions than taxing capital gains. Not that the effects of higher capital gains taxes on investment are huge. But they are real.

I still think tax increases should be concentrated on bad things we want to discourage. Like fossil fuels. But credibly accused creepy joe and company aint listening to me.
 
sturg33 said:
The examples I gave are the only examples on the book.

When rates were raised, revenue fell.

When rates were lowered, revenue increased.

These are just facts.

I'm not worried about a tiny amount of speculators... I'm worried about increasing opportunities for the hundreds of millions Americans who rely on market gains for their retirement.
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I’d be open to restricting 401k and other retirement vehicles from this. I’m just not interested in helping a group of people that have no interest in the common good of the country. I’ve seen too much the past few years to care anymore. I don’t think that money is going elsewhere.
 
thethe said:
I’d be open to restricting 401k and other retirement vehicles from this. I’m just not interested in helping a group of people that have no interest in the common good of the country. I’ve seen too much the past few years to care anymore. I don’t think that money is going elsewhere.
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But short term cap gains is already equivalent to income rates...

So all you are proposing is ling term investors.

I'm not following your logic
 
I’m aware of the difference in how the classifications of gains are taxed. There are those that hold investments long term that use it as their principal source of income whether it be cashing in or using it as collateral for lending. Those that strictly rely on their well being with just investments should pay the same tax rates as those that work other types of jobs.

That money isn’t going elsewhere. And if they take it out of the market they’ll invest in other ways that will generate economic growth and jobs.
 
Just looked at CNBC and saw his proposal is basically to double the current rate. That's a bit more aggressive than I was looking for.
 
thethe said:
I’m aware of the difference in how the classifications of gains are taxed. There are those that hold investments long term that use it as their principal source of income whether it be cashing in or using it as collateral for lending. Those that strictly rely on their well being with just investments should pay the same tax rates as those that work other types of jobs.

That money isn’t going elsewhere. And if they take it out of the market they’ll invest in other ways that will generate economic growth and jobs.
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This seems like such a weird position to me.

How would you differentiate the people who use their savings to grow their net worth in the market vs those who make money off of dividends, etc.

At first your issue was with speculators. Now its just long term investors who make income off their investments. Again. That is a very small fraction of long term investors in this country.

You are supporting punishing a huge amount of people bc you're mad there are a few rich folks benefiting also
 
Well... theres no evidence it actually raises revenue. And why the hell would we want the government getting more revenue anyways?

But is what it is. Seems like a very emotional based argument than a logical one
 
I don’t see any evidence that it reduces revenue outside of what I believe I’ve shown to be cherry picked dates.
 
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