The Biden Presidency

sturg33 said:
An addition $5k per year per employee.

But then investors would stop investing and that would probably lead to people being let go
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Walmart's profits the past two years are almost double what they were the prior two years. It's up to them and their employees to figure out how to divvy things up. But it wouldn't break their investors if a bigger share of the pie went to their lower paid employees. And if something happened to tip the balance of power one way or the other, well dems the breaks. I don't have a rooting interest since I neither work for nor own Walmart.

I see the profits for Target have also gone up substantially the past two years compared to prior years. No rooting interest there either.
 
nsacpi said:
Walmart's profits the past two years are almost double what they were the prior two years. It's up to them and their employees to figure out how to divvy things up. But it wouldn't break their investors if a bigger share of the pie went to their lower paid employees. And if something happened to tip the balance of power one way or the other, well dems the breaks. I don't have a rooting interest since I neither work for nor own Walmart.
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I believe they raised their minimum wage to $15/hr, offered free tuition to any employee, and offered one off bonuses to all hourly employees during this time
 
sturg33 said:
I believe they raised their minimum wage to $15/hr, offered free tuition to any employee, and offered one off bonuses to all hourly employees during this time
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As I said I have no rooting interest. Both they and their employees will sort out what works best. But the "objective conditions" that determine the balance of power change over time. Sometimes workers have the hammer, other times ownership does. So the way the pie gets divvied up changes over time. One way to see this is corporate profits as a percentage of GDP. Sometimes it is high. Sometimes it is low. I don't pass judgment on which is good or bad. It is just a reflection of the balance of power in the economy between labor and capital. I never think in terms of ownership having a moral right to labor at a certain price or workers having a moral right to a "living wage."

We did see the last few years before covid that a high pressure economy (very low unemployment rate) works in favor of groups that previously were left behind. To the extent I would recommend policy it would be to try to return to a high pressure economy as quickly as possible. I'd be willing to tolerate some inflation to get there faster.
 
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sturg33 said:
I believe they raised their minimum wage to $15/hr, offered free tuition to any employee, and offered one off bonuses to all hourly employees during this time
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Amazon and Target don't seem to be struggling after raising their wages to $15. And I believe Walmart announced recently that employees in big cities will make between $14-19/hour to stock shelves- their stock price is up about $10/share since that announcement.
 
this is really gonna trigger him with a bunch of buzz words etc

but

the owners of walmart are worth 130.2 billion dollars

they can find places to pay people better and still make more money than they need

and you are worried about the person getting an extra $15k as the problem with this country lol
 
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McCann'sCans said:
Amazon and Target don't seem to be struggling after raising their wages to $15. And I believe Walmart announced recently that employees in big cities will make between $14-19/hour to stock shelves- their stock price is up about $10/share since that announcement.
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The stock price does little to impact operations especially because they aren’t dealing with short term cash flow issues.
 
McCann'sCans said:
Amazon and Target don't seem to be struggling after raising their wages to $15. And I believe Walmart announced recently that employees in big cities will make between $14-19/hour to stock shelves- their stock price is up about $10/share since that announcement.
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All those companies have seen very good profits results the last few years. Their results were strong pre-covid and and they have been strong post-covid. So it seems to me there is a "surplus" to be divvied up between workers and ownership. It is a question of bargaining power.
 
McCann'sCans said:
Amazon and Target don't seem to be struggling after raising their wages to $15. And I believe Walmart announced recently that employees in big cities will make between $14-19/hour to stock shelves- their stock price is up about $10/share since that announcement.
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Its big corporations best interest to get the federal minimum wage increased. They can afford it while small businesses can't.
 
Belief #1: Democrats are overly generous with UI. We shouldn't allow people to make $25,000 per year on unemployment during a pandemic.
Belief #2: Don't pay people a livable wage because it might put a dent in corporate profits.
Belief #3: Democrats hate poor people, but I advocate for the poor and not corporations.

Three difficult beliefs to hold all at once. If you want to believe the first two things that's fine, but it kind of crushes credibility on #3.
 
McCann'sCans said:
Belief #1: Democrats are overly generous with UI. We shouldn't allow people to make $25,000 per year on unemployment during a pandemic.
Belief #2: Don't pay people a livable wage because it might put a dent in corporate profits.
Belief #3: Democrats hate poor people, but I advocate for the poor and not corporations.

Three difficult beliefs to hold all at once. If you want to believe the first two things that's fine, but it kind of crushes credibility on #3.
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Belief number 4... a business has no obligation to pay an employee more than the employee adds value to its business
 
Or you can believe it’s up to the individual to better themselves and earn higher wages. I actually don’t care as much about corporate profits anymore because we should bust up all these multinational conglomerates.
 
McCann'sCans said:
Belief #1: Democrats are overly generous with UI. We shouldn't allow people to make $25,000 per year on unemployment during a pandemic.
Belief #2: Don't pay people a livable wage because it might put a dent in corporate profits.
Belief #3: Democrats hate poor people, but I advocate for the poor and not corporations.

Three difficult beliefs to hold all at once. If you want to believe the first two things that's fine, but it kind of crushes credibility on #3.
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Obviously life is more complicated than that. I think there is a group (let's call them the petit bourgeoisie) that gets squeezed between the big companies and the proletariat. I'm a small businessman myself. But I don't wax nostalgic about small businessmen as a class.
 
McCann'sCans said:
If your business model means you can't make money while paying employees more than $7.25/hour, you have a bad business model.
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If you’re expecting government intervention or public pressure to get a raise then your skills are trash and have only yourself to blame.

Or we could you know ensure that the supply of low skilled labor isn’t endless.
 
sturg33 said:
Belief number 4... a business has no obligation to pay an employee more than the employee adds value to its business
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The problem with that is there is always this "surplus" that multiple parties can lay claim to. It comes down to bargaining, and the balance of power does shift over time. When you have a surplus to divvy up it becomes a bit unclear what value added is.
 
thethe said:
If you’re expecting government intervention or public pressure to get a raise then your skills are trash and have only yourself to blame.

Or we could you know ensure that the supply of low skilled labor isn’t endless.
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Certainly the government handouts don't incentivize optimizing and individuals skill set.

Also worth remember only about 2% of workers make min wage. It's mostly high schoolers like me who was a cashier and a cart pusher to make a few bucks to help pay for my car
 
McCann'sCans said:
If your business model means you can't make money while paying employees more than $7.25/hour, you have a bad business model.
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I mean that's every business model in our current economic system. Someone has to be the low man on the totem pole. Most people don't think about it because that person is usually a foreign laborer making their iPhone or a migrant worker picking their fruit.

There is a way to make a sustainable economy while paying every person along the way a living wage, but it's not anywhere close to what we're doing.

Better option.

UBI. Tax companies who're making massive amounts of profit on the backs of automation, and slide that to people. You could then work a job that pays 10 an hour and still clear 32K in a full work year.
 
nsacpi said:
The problem with that is there is always this "surplus" that multiple parties can lay claim to. It comes down to bargaining, and the balance of power does shift over time. When you have a surplus to divvy up it becomes a bit unclear what value added is.
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The real issue is the consolidation of the surplus.
 
nsacpi said:
The problem with that is there is always this "surplus" that multiple parties can lay claim to. It comes down to bargaining, and the balance of power does shift over time. When you have a surplus to divvy up it becomes a bit unclear what value added is.
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I agree.

There are two factors for wages.

1. How much value do you add?

2. How replaceable are you?

#1 can be difficult to precisely pinpoint, but two can be pretty easy.

Right now, for number two... The cost to replace someone is expensive bc the tax payers are funding non work
 
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