The Coronavirus, not the beer

Tapate50 said:
Why not? People do this to the healthcare system every single day and we all pay the price for it.
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a smoker has been paying a tax all his/her life

smoking is very much analogous to making the choice to run around with a deadly virus when a vaccine is available...if people want to make that choice they should pay the cost

i'm not in favor of withholding medical care

i am in favor of people taking responsibility for their choices and not passing the costs on to others...stoically bear the costs of their choices in the privacy of their personal death chamber without spreading their germs to doctors, nurses and others...the ancient greeks and romans would approve

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nsacpi said:
a smoker has been paying a tax all his/her life

smoking is very much analogous to making the choice to run around with a deadly virus when a vaccine is available...if people want to make that choice they should pay the cost

i'm not in favor of withholding medical care

i am in favor of people taking responsibility for their choices and not passing the costs on to others...stoically bear the costs of their choices in the privacy of their personal death chamber without spreading their germs to doctors, nurses and others...the ancient greeks and romans would approve

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Just because a person pays a tax on nicotine, doesn't mean they don't forward the cost of that onto all of us. The money or penalty as you see it doesn't fill the other, much larger gap.
 
Tapate50 said:
Just because a person pays a tax on nicotine, doesn't mean they don't forward the cost of that onto all of us. The money or penalty as you see it doesn't fill the other, much larger gap.
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actually there is a little dirty secret to cigarette taxes...they have gotten so high they more than compensate society for the various externalities associated with smoking

of course there are other reasons to make the taxes so high, including deterring young people from picking up the habit in the first place
 
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sturg33 said:
Think about all the deaths the epidemiologists caused for decades by not pushing masks... up until April 2020 the consensus was they were useless. Epimdieolgists are responsible for tens of millions of deaths

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So people in Japan were wearing masks as a fashion statement all these years before covid?
 
sturg33 said:
There is nothing you won't support.

So as mentioned, before I never understood how the public went along with such atrocities.

Now I completely understand
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Yes

You keep repeating the same garbage over and over and compare it to nazi germany instead of admitting it could be a triage situation

It’s hilarious you call others idiots lol
 
goldfly said:
Yes

You keep repeating the same garbage over and over and compare it to nazi germany instead of admitting it could be a triage situation

It’s hilarious you call others idiots lol
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It's not a triage situation. Triage is based on entirely different factors. How sick someone is, what their prognosis is, age, etc. It's unethical for a doctor to play god deciding whether someone is a good enough person to deserve treatment.

The doctor in that post wasn't talking about triage. She was venting. She's no doubt tired, overworked, and burned out. She sees so many people who would be at home if they just had been vaccinated and she's frustrated. I get it. It was a stupid thing to say and almost certainly not something she'd ever do.
 
striker42 said:
It's not a triage situation. Triage is based on entirely different factors. How sick someone is, what their prognosis is, age, etc. It's unethical for a doctor to play god deciding whether someone is a good enough person to deserve treatment.

The doctor in that post wasn't talking about triage. She was venting. She's no doubt tired, overworked, and burned out. She sees so many people who would be at home if they just had been vaccinated and she's frustrated. I get it. It was a stupid thing to say and almost certainly not something she'd ever do.
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on the battlefield there sometimes arises a form triage based on whether an injured person is one of the good guys or not

medics will treat their own soldiers before moving on to the enemy

in a sense an unvaccinated patient chose a course of action that is putting the doctors and nurses at risk...i'm not in favor of withholding care from such people...but i do insist on pointing out the immorality of the choices they are making...now if they plan to stay home and die quietly there that's one thing...but in many cases they make a choice with respect to vaccination and then make another choice to go to the hospital and put other people in danger
 
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nsacpi said:
on the battlefield there sometimes arises a form triage based on whether an injured person is one of the good guys or not

medics will treat their own soldiers before moving on to the enemy

in a sense an unvaccinated patient chose a course of action that is putting the doctors and nurses at risk...i'm not in favor of withholding care from such people...but i do insist on pointing out the immorality of the choices they are making...now if they plan to stay home and die quietly there that's one thing...but in many cases they make a choice with respect to vaccination and then make another choice to go to the hospital and put other people in danger
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I think there's a difference between an enemy on the battlefield and someone in your own society you disagree with.

I'm very pro-vaccine and I think that deciding not to get one is often a stupid decision. But I don't think it's the role of doctors to decide whether someone's decision making warrants them getting treatment. If two people come into a small hospital after a car accident and there's only one doctor, should that doctor decide who to treat based on who was at fault? Driving at an excessive speed is probably more dangerous than not getting vaccinated but we don't have doctors deciding whether or not a reckless driver deserves treatment. That's not a call a doctor should be making.
 
striker42 said:
I think there's a difference between an enemy on the battlefield and someone in your own society you disagree with.

I'm very pro-vaccine and I think that deciding not to get one is often a stupid decision. But I don't think it's the role of doctors to decide whether someone's decision making warrants them getting treatment. If two people come into a small hospital after a car accident and there's only one doctor, should that doctor decide who to treat based on who was at fault? Driving at an excessive speed is probably more dangerous than not getting vaccinated but we don't have doctors deciding whether or not a reckless driver deserves treatment. That's not a call a doctor should be making.
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I'm not in favor of doctors doing this either. Although I'm sympathetic to their desire to vent. My essential point is the immorality of the choice to not vaccinate combined with the subsequent choice to put others at risk upon becoming sick.
 
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hope Joe has only mild symptoms and recovers quickly

but will also point out that it would be immoral of him to go to a hospital and put others in danger given his initial decision not to vaccinate
 
I'm happy to wager that he will.be fine, and I'm guessing he is happy that he has much better immunity and doesn't have to get a quarterly booster shot anymore
 
sturg33 said:
I'm happy to wager that he will.be fine, and I'm guessing he is happy that he has much better immunity and doesn't have to get a quarterly booster shot anymore
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i'm in favor of his right to opt for natural immunity

i'm just stating that the combined decision to not vaccinate and then upon getting sick go to a hospital and puts others at risk is immoral
 
striker42 said:
It's not a triage situation. Triage is based on entirely different factors. How sick someone is, what their prognosis is, age, etc. It's unethical for a doctor to play god deciding whether someone is a good enough person to deserve treatment.

The doctor in that post wasn't talking about triage. She was venting. She's no doubt tired, overworked, and burned out. She sees so many people who would be at home if they just had been vaccinated and she's frustrated. I get it. It was a stupid thing to say and almost certainly not something she'd ever do.
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I’m saying she and others are viewing it that way at times by dealing with pieces of **** that aren’t listening to them and then show up and expect them to treat them and take up all the beds etc

That’s a reasonable stance of “why should we have to help and make room for these people when others are dying from preventable things that are vaccinated but can’t get a bed cause of these ****s”

It seems pretty damn close to triage of taking someone off a ventilator when we have no beds and it looks bleak for some to help someone else that has better odds
 
nsacpi said:
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hope Joe has only mild symptoms and recovers quickly

but will also point out that it would be immoral of him to go to a hospital and put others in danger given his initial decision not to vaccinate
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He was symptomless in 48 hrs
 
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