The Coronavirus, not the beer

Carp said:
I literally posted about it in the post above that one. And again, you're an idiot for believing the right wing sites that said the CDC listed only 6% of COVID deaths are from COVID.
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When did I say that in my post?
 
To put things in perspective, if someone that has COPD contracts COVID, has severe symptoms, and tragically dies, thethe believes that person shouldn't qualify as a COVID death, even though that person was reasonably likely to still be alive had they never contracted COVID.
 
Carp said:
While it’s true that in 6% of COVID-19-related deaths, COVID-19 was the only diagnosis listed on the death certificate, that’s only part of the picture.

“Many clinicians will list the physiologic process which caused death,” says Dr. Braunstein. “For example, 55,000 of the death certificates had ‘respiratory failure’ listed as cause of death—we know that this is one of the most common mechanisms by which COVID-19 leads to death. We also know that in over 160,000 of the 180,000-plus deaths caused by COVID-19 in the US, COVID-19 was one of the diagnoses that was listed on the death certificate, and was felt to be the trigger for mortality.”

The CDC has never hidden the fact that pre-existing health conditions can cause people to experience serious complications from COVID-19.


https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/cdc-6-percent-covid-deaths
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So, thethe you're just not gonna touch this one?
 
thethe said:
What in my post is inconsistent with that?
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It literally says that 160k deaths of the 180k, COVID was felt to be the trigger for mortality. I don't know how more plain of an explanation that can be that you assertion that 25% (or more) of COVID related deaths are over-reported is clearly false.
 
Carp said:
It literally says that 160k deaths of the 180k, COVID was felt to be the trigger for mortality. I don't know how more plain of an explanation that can be that you assertion that 25% (or more) of COVID related deaths are over-reported is clearly false.
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Ok and that still has nothing to do with my post.
 
I have nothing left to do but facepalm at this time. I'll give you this, you have an uncanny ability to drag people into cyclical arguments of which you're clearly wrong but have zero desire to admit it.
 
Carp said:
To put things in perspective, if someone that has COPD contracts COVID, has severe symptoms, and tragically dies, thethe believes that person shouldn't qualify as a COVID death, even though that person was reasonably likely to still be alive had they never contracted COVID.
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There are cases where the line gets fuzzy. For example, my great aunt was in the last stages of Alzheimer's and in hospice care when she contracted Covid and died from it. Is that a Covid death? It's recorded as one even though she would have, at best, lasted another month or two.

So there's a good argument to be made that someone who has a disease that has put them on their death bed but who is pushed over the edge by Covid didn't really die from Covid but from the disease that already had them on the edge in the first place.

That's not to say that any co-morbidity should remove a death from being Covid related. You can suffer from a disease that makes you very susceptible to dying from Covid and yet still have decades of life ahead of you if you can avoid catching Covid. These people should absolutely be considered Covid deaths.

Suffice to say it's not always a clear line as to what is a Covid death and what is not.
 
striker42 said:
There are cases where the line gets fuzzy. For example, my great aunt was in the last stages of Alzheimer's and in hospice care when she contracted Covid and died from it. Is that a Covid death? It's recorded as one even though she would have, at best, lasted another month or two.

So there's a good argument to be made that someone who has a disease that has put them on their death bed but who is pushed over the edge by Covid didn't really die from Covid but from the disease that already had them on the edge in the first place.

That's not to say that any co-morbidity should remove a death from being Covid related. You can suffer from a disease that makes you very susceptible to dying from Covid and yet still have decades of life ahead of you if you can avoid catching Covid. These people should absolutely be considered Covid deaths.

Suffice to say it's not always a clear line as to what is a Covid death and what is not.
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the excess deaths data cut through all these what if's

excess deaths have run almost 20% above the official covid numbers
 
changing the "day to day paradigm" probably greatly reduced the number of flu deaths...so the excess death numbers in all likelihood understate covid deaths
 
nsacpi said:
changing the "day to day paradigm" probably greatly reduced the number of flu deaths...so the excess death numbers in all likelihood understate covid deaths
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If you aren’t skeptical of how we killed flu deaths to effectively zero while it had little to no impact on covid deaths then I’m sure your numbers will show what you want.

But then you also have suicides/Alzheimer’s/lack of cancer screenings among other things that are getting wrapped up in this figure.

My final question would be can you explain what an excess death in excess of the covid reported number that would represent an unreported covid death?

Where are these people dying in the US without a hospital intervention that does testing for covid?
 
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thethe said:
If you aren’t skeptical of how we killed flu deaths to effectively zero while it had little to no impact on covid deaths then I’m sure your numbers will show what you want.
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you have to remember i'm a believer in the efficacy of masks and social distancing...i have never argued that those measures had "little to no impact"...you must have me confused for someone else
 
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