The Discussion That Should Be Going On

Tapate50 said:
It did take Obama a while to speak on the issue, so maybe he had a hand in it. It was just vague enough to come across as scripted. There is no way to know for sure.

No one is demanding birth certificates from those men because they aren't the President. Not realizing the difference is justing being obtuse. Think Jesse and Al wouldn't act the same way? Because they did. Al was crowing about W's military record getting made public for over a year. That card gets played every year in elections. Cmon man, Mitt had to lay his tax returns out for the world to see. Comparing something the extreme right did (and quoting it as the norm) is just as asanine as quoting Jesse and Al. We would go round n round for days of the stupidity. The norm lies somewhere in the middle.

You have been looking high and lo for these black gangs ? You haven't been looking hard at all. Like I said, I live very close to much of this and see it every day. We have as many as 6-8 gangs operating in our small city at one time. Over 50% of those are black with the rest being Latino. Your few lines on this suggest you aren't familiar with any of this on a personal level. I have no idea, and I don't pretend to know you or your situation.

As far as the distinction between racial prejudice \ bigotry and racism, you got me there. I don't care. I want our world fixed, and whatever color decideds to pick it up and take the horse by the reigns is fine by me. All I want is a better place for my children and their children. Right now I can't say that is the case, at least not with a straight face. I see a total abcence of accountability from a lot of groups, and that is what troubles me.
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Um, no, he didn't.
 
Why do white-white people always bring up Al and Jesse?

Not sure what either have done to deserve the derision pointed their way -- both are ordained ministers and both put their asses on the line JJ for almost 60 years and AS for over 30. Both have put their name on a a ballot for President of the US and both have probably calmed more racial waters than stirred. Both have made PR errors but under the microscope they live under for that long there will be blemishes. No matter who you are. (Anthony Weiner- Joe Walsh-Sarah Palin)
Still have not seen a criminal complaint against either.

W's military record was brought up because he illegally sent youngmen&women to slaughter after cowardly avoiding war due to privilege. Romney still hasn't shown his tax returns. Not sure how in anyone's mind they can equate Obamas birth certificate with Bush's military record.
That my fellow Braves Fan is called a false equivalency
 
Julio3000 said:
Um, no, he didn't.
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Excuse me. He did in 2010, submitted a estimate before the deadline in 2011, but did not in 2012.

For their 2011 tax returns, the Romneys paid nearly $2 million in taxes on an income of $13.7 million for an effective tax rate of 14.1%. They gave almost $4 million to charity, but only claimed $2.25 million in deductions in order to maintain his campaign pledge to pay at least 13% of his income in federal taxes.[209][210] The summary prepared by PwC stated the Romney's effective tax rate paid had averaged 20.2% from 1990 to 2009.[211

I got lazy and thats all from wiki.
 
57Brave said:
Why do white-white people always bring up Al and Jesse?

Not sure what either have done to deserve the derision pointed their way -- both are ordained ministers and both put their asses on the line JJ for almost 60 years and AS for over 30. Both have put their name on a a ballot for President of the US and both have probably calmed more racial waters than stirred. Both have made PR errors but under the microscope they live under for that long there will be blemishes. No matter who you are. (Anthony Weiner- Joe Walsh-Sarah Palin)
Still have not seen a criminal complaint against either.

W's military record was brought up because he illegally sent youngmen&women to slaughter after cowardly avoiding war due to privilege. Romney still hasn't shown his tax returns. Not sure how in anyone's mind they can equate Obamas birth certificate with Bush's military record.
That my fellow Braves Fan is called a false equivalency
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They have. Just like Trump on the other side, the only show up when there is money to be made. As AA(maybe?) said earlier in this thread they are there to keep the divide and bait more antagonism. Thats where their money comes from and where their fortunes lay. If there was no cantankerousness between the whites and blacks, they would not be in the news anymore and poor.

I really cannot take you serious if you are in defense of those two as I wouldn't refer to Trump as a righty idol. And you leave Joe Walsh out of this!

Bush acted. The whole US wanted us to act. I would have acted. EVERYONE would have acted. Lets not get that fact confuse a half truth. Obammer still using drones.

I guess the fact you MUST BE A US CITIZEN to be President get in the way of good consipiricy theory. There were questions about his birth cert because there were questions about where he was born, not because he was black. Seeing race where there was none is kinda racist dude.
 
Tapate, IMO you have to put the birth certificate thing to bed before you've got latitude to talk about taking anyone else seriously.
 
Julio3000 said:
Tapate, IMO you have to put the birth certificate thing to bed before you've got latitude to talk about taking anyone else seriously.
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I wasn't calling for it? I don't really care. I guess I don't follow how "i need to put it to bed"? Trump was making a media tour and pimping that show of his talking about it a ton. Is it racially biased to ask for a birth certificate?
 
Maybe I misread the last few posts; thought you were at least legitimizing the concerns.

And, yes, those "concerns" had a race-baiting edge to them—it played up the "otherness" of Obama. He's not "one of us." He's from Africa. His loyalties lie elsewhere. Would a white president or presidential candidate be treated the same way? Maybe a ***ish one. That's about the only analog I can think of.

Tangentially, I'd ask if you differentiate between, say, Sean Hannity (or Rush or Ann Coulter or whoever) and the aforementioned Revs? Those folks and many others like them are raking in six- and seven-figure paychecks by peddling outrage and white grievance.
 
Julio3000 said:
Maybe I misread the last few posts; thought you were at least legitimizing the concerns.

And, yes, those "concerns" had a race-baiting edge to them—it played up the "otherness" of Obama. He's not "one of us." He's from Africa. His loyalties lie elsewhere. Would a white president or presidential candidate be treated the same way? Maybe a ***ish one. That's about the only analog I can think of.

Tangentially, I'd ask if you differentiate between, say, Sean Hannity (or Rush or Ann Coulter or whoever) and the aforementioned Revs? Those folks and many others like them are raking in six- and seven-figure paychecks by peddling outrage and white grievance.
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It was idiotic. But you have to be a citizen of the US to become Pres. It is an i and t that should have been dotted and crossed LONG before his second term. But it should have to be provided by everyone that runs. It seems moronic that it isn't really. It should be in your "I want to run for President of the US" application packet.

I see them as entertainers for a dollar, not spokespeople for a racial group or civil rights leaders. They are the John Stewarts and Bill Mahers of my party. That is all. How do you see it?
 
I think they're opportunistic entertainers who've found and capitalized on a virtually inexhaustible gravy train. I'm reassured by your assessment, but I don't know that it's shared by the balance of their audiences.
 
Krgrecw said:

I agree wholeheartedly
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Just watched it and couldn't agree more with what he said. So many times excuses are thrown out instead of looking in the mirror to see the cause of the problem. 73% of African American children born out of wedlock is just an astonishing stat.
 
It was a great segment. I thought it was fair and honest. I know a lot of folks dislike O'Reilly, but I thought that was one of his better monologues.
 
Did O'Reilly just blame African Americans,The Congeressional Balck Caucus,Obama, Sharpton and Jackson for systemic racism?
if we listen further he will also say ---- she really wants it by wearing short skirts and provocative make up.

I really dont think white-white america want the words accountability and O'Reilly not only in the same sentence - but in the same lifetime. Unless of course that is all they listen to or read
 
57Brave said:
Did O'Reilly just blame African Americans,The Congeressional Balck Caucus,Obama, Sharpton and Jackson for systemic racism?
if we listen further he will also say ---- she really wants it by wearing short skirts and provocative make up.

I really dont think white-white america want the words accountability and O'Reilly not only in the same sentence - but in the same lifetime. Unless of course that is all they listen to or read
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Just because he has made mistakes (like you referenced earlier in this thread) doesn't make his monologue less true. Unless of course you don't want to listen because you deflect accurate criticisms.

Not one place in this thread have you said in any place that Black America has any part of whats going on right now. Its all deflect, deflect, post a circumstantial article, and ignore what people are saying. Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step in this. Then addressing it, then figuring out a solution. You are doing none of the above just flaming.

And yes, I believe WHOLEHEARTEDLY that Sharpton and Jackson contribute to racism in America. I think they are some of the governing forces into keeping the divide in place. They blamed a south Ga towns government for floods that affected more black areas than whites.

Fwiw, because I know context or inflection cannot be communicated via written word as much I am not angry or anything with this discussion. I appreciate hearing other sides, but debating them with others. I am not getting riled up or anything.
 
Probably because I dont see it as a Black or White America problem.
Which is the problem - that is the discussion that should be going on. Agreed?

White -white defensive reaction gets us no where - which is what I see O'Reiily ,Hannity,Limbaugh,Malkin Coulter,Rand Paul etc etc etc going on about.
Playing defense - defending the status quo.

Would you view systemic racism as an economic issue?
I do
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oh yeah, that is a bithc about Hudson huh?
Wonder if we'll ever see him pitch again?
 
57Brave said:
Probably because I dont see it as a Black or White America problem.

Which is the problem - that is the discussion that should be going on. Agreed?

White -white defensive reaction gets us no where - which is what I see O'Reiily ,Hannity,Limbaugh,Malkin Coulter,Rand Paul etc etc etc going on about.

Playing defense - defending the status quo.

Would you view systemic racism as an economic issue?

I do

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oh yeah, that is a bithc about Hudson huh?

Wonder if we'll ever see him pitch again?
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I see it as an America problem as well, but we are all citizens of America. At some point self evaluation has to be done to diagnose. What does that diagnosis tell you?

I'll ask you point blank - what do those numbers in the Pat Buchanan article ( taken from the FBI ) referring to crime in Ny tell you ? Maybe this is where our disconnect is.
 
Buchanon's numbers tell me poverty creates desperate people. Experience tells me desperate people do desperate things

It also says the same thing the O'Reilly commentary said. Black people are responsible for systemic racism -- bootstraps and all that - if "they" would ...

Never saw a response to question of how you view the source systemic racism.
 
57Brave said:
Buchanon's numbers tell me poverty creates desperate people. Experience tells me desperate people do desperate things

It also says the same thing the O'Reilly commentary said. Black people are responsible for systemic racism -- bootstraps and all that - if "they" would ...

Never saw a response to question of how you view the source systemic racism.
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Created by past experiences. Enhanced by stereotypes but based in some fact.

This goes back to my original post. Accountability. That's the best way to eliminate it. Get the house in order. Hold your community accountable for its actions
 
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