The Don

ESP47 said:
Actually it is a conspiracy and we're seeing it play out first hand. Brazile conspired with the HRC campaign to give her a foot up on Trump during the debates. That's a conspiracy. There are many many conspiracies that have come to light between the media and her campaign. These are the conspiracies we have proof of. For every one conspiracy we have proof of, how many do you think are going on that we don't know about? Logic tells you that there is way more going on here than we can probably even imagine.

I really don't understand your logic in popping into these threads telling everyone that these illegal moves are just standard operating procedure as if we should just all accept it as regularly scheduled programming and just move on and vote for the chosen one.
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What Brazile did wasn't illegal. It was unethical, but it wasn't illegal. A conspiracy insinuates that the whole system is rigged and not just a couple of individuals misbehaving. Unlike Hillary, I don't see a vast right-wing conspiracy trying to bring down the country. Unlike Bernie, I don't see a vast criminal conspiracy ruining the economy. Unlike Trump, I don't see this vast establishment trying to make our country servile to the rest of the world.

And I'm not telling anyone who to vote for. I'm voting for Hillary and I have my reasons for doing that. If folks want to vote for Trump, go ahead. That's their prerogative. My point here is that politics is rough-and-tumble and everyone seems to blanch at the latest revelation regardless of magnitude and parade it around like it's the end of the world.

I think Hillary's e-mail issue is troubling and if there's damning evidence there, it should be pursued. I just think Comey's timing is off and a lot of public officials from BOTH parties are saying so.

I've not participated in direct hi-jinks like tearing down lawn signs, but I did have to write misleading negative ads and literature pieces (and I always complained about the nature of those pieces with my boss, but to no avail) when I was a "professional Democrat." Now if that makes me a terrible human being, I take responsibility for everything I've done. I had an acquaintance who worked for a Jewish legislator and every campaign, he'd sneak out one night a spray paint a couple of Swashtikas on a prominent site in the district. Of course, press conferences and accusations would follow. It's illegal to damage property, but there certainly wasn't a conspiracy going down. A vast majority of public officials and those who are on their campaign staffs are no better--AND NO WORSE--than the average American.

Hawk, I never bought any connection between Trump and Putin, but I think the key phrase in the article is that they haven't found anything "so far." Maybe Comey should say the same thing about what's on Huma's computer.
 
50PoundHead said:
What Brazile did wasn't illegal. It was unethical, but it wasn't illegal. A conspiracy insinuates that the whole system is rigged and not just a couple of individuals misbehaving. Unlike Hillary, I don't see a vast right-wing conspiracy trying to bring down the country. Unlike Bernie, I don't see a vast criminal conspiracy ruining the economy. Unlike Trump, I don't see this vast establishment trying to make our country servile to the rest of the world.

And I'm not telling anyone who to vote for. I'm voting for Hillary and I have my reasons for doing that. If folks want to vote for Trump, go ahead. That's their prerogative. My point here is that politics is rough-and-tumble and everyone seems to blanch at the latest revelation regardless of magnitude and parade it around like it's the end of the world.

I think Hillary's e-mail issue is troubling and if there's damning evidence there, it should be pursued. I just think Comey's timing is off and a lot of public officials from BOTH parties are saying so.

I've not participated in direct hi-jinks like tearing down lawn signs, but I did have to write misleading negative ads and literature pieces (and I always complained about the nature of those pieces with my boss, but to no avail) when I was a "professional Democrat." Now if that makes me a terrible human being, I take responsibility for everything I've done. I had an acquaintance who worked for a Jewish legislator and every campaign, he'd sneak out one night a spray paint a couple of Swashtikas on a prominent site in the district. Of course, press conferences and accusations would follow. It's illegal to damage property, but there certainly wasn't a conspiracy going down. A vast majority of public officials and those who are on their campaign staffs are no better--AND NO WORSE--than the average American.

Hawk, I never bought any connection between Trump and Putin, but I think the key phrase in the article is that they haven't found anything "so far." Maybe Comey should say the same thing about what's on Huma's computer.
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The Brazile conspiracy wasn't illegal but others were illegal. In the end it just keeps adding up and adding up. Whether it's illegal or unethical, the evidence is mounting. I'm curious, if you don't believe that any of the conspiracies are true, do you then believe that the system is set up fairly so we, as the people, can elect the best candidate possible? You don't think there's any sort of rigging in there to where the system is rigged against us in every way possible? Seems to me like the economy and every branch of government is basically rigged against you and me and rigged for large corporations and the already rich. Seems weird that we would all allow that to happen since we are voting the right people into office, correct?

You aren't a terrible person at all. You did some morally unethical things but we all do things like that on a daily basis. But we should hold the leaders of this country much more accountable than we hold ourselves. They're supposed to be there because we deem them the most responsible and intelligent people who can make the hard decisions that make our lives and our country better. Voting in the Bush's, Clinton's and all the rest of these politicians who are ran by the system hasn't done us a single bit of good...ever. Never once has it done a damn thing for us as a whole. So why would we continue to keep voting them in? It just makes zero sense to me. It's like the people of this country have Stockholm syndrome.
 
ESP47 said:
The Brazile conspiracy wasn't illegal but others were illegal. In the end it just keeps adding up and adding up. Whether it's illegal or unethical, the evidence is mounting. I'm curious, if you don't believe that any of the conspiracies are true, do you then believe that the system is set up fairly so we, as the people, can elect the best candidate possible? You don't think there's any sort of rigging in there to where the system is rigged against us in every way possible? Seems to me like the economy and every branch of government is basically rigged against you and me and rigged for large corporations and the already rich. Seems weird that we would all allow that to happen since we are voting the right people into office, correct?

You aren't a terrible person at all. You did some morally unethical things but we all do things like that on a daily basis. But we should hold the leaders of this country much more accountable than we hold ourselves. They're supposed to be there because we deem them the most responsible and intelligent people who can make the hard decisions that make our lives and our country better. Voting in the Bush's, Clinton's and all the rest of these politicians who are ran by the system hasn't done us a single bit of good...ever. Never once has it done a damn thing for us as a whole. So why would we continue to keep voting them in? It just makes zero sense to me. It's like the people of this country have Stockholm syndrome.
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The system isn't rigged. It just isn't. There are simply too many moving parts for it to be rigged. The success of Sanders and Trump shows that the system isn't rigged because they both came out of nowhere. But if you think the system is rigged, I can't believe you're even considering a vote for Trump, who would likely put a Supreme Court in place that will cement many of the current inequities in the system in place. If Trump has done anything in this election, he's convinced a large part of the electorate that the trickle-down policies advocated by the Republicans since the early-1980s haven't worked for the middle class. The irony: Trump proposes to fix that problem by advocating an even more slanted supply-side solution. Didn't work in the 1980s and it won't work now.

As for elected officials, unless they are totally bereft of any strand of morality, I view them the same way I view someone on the street. The take an oath and if they uphold that oath, they have done their job. They face the public in elections and if found wanting, they lose. If anything is slanted, it's campaign financing and good luck getting any of that changed with a Trump nomination to the high court.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I am going to officially call it now. Trump wins the popular vote and Hillary wins the electoral college. Then all hell breaks loose.
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I was thinking the same thing yesterday. Indeed a possibility. She seems (and it only seems) to have an Electoral College firewall, hence Trump is spending a lot of time in places like Wisconsin. Could be a replay of 2000.
 
Under extreme drought conditions someone lit a Trump sign on fire...nearly burned down a neighbors house earlier this week.

Some people man...
 
Two most likely paths I see for a Trump win.
1. He wins all of Romney's states plus Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Nevada and New Hampshire. That makes it 269-269 and the House votes him in.
2. No.1 except he also takes the proportional vote in Maine to get to 270.

I also think he has a good chance of picking off Wisconsin but no better than the chance he has of losing North Carolina or Florida, which would sink him for good.

I can't see him winning Pennsylvania. That one always breaks Democrat at the end and Philly is too strong for her.
 
bravesnumberone said:
Two most likely paths I see for a Trump win.
1. He wins all of Romney's states plus Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Nevada and New Hampshire. That makes it 269-269 and the House votes him in.
2. No.1 except he also takes the proportional vote in Maine to get to 270.

I also think he has a good chance of picking off Wisconsin but no better than the chance he has of losing North Carolina or Florida, which would sink him for good.

I can't see him winning Pennsylvania. That one always breaks Democrat at the end and Philly is too strong for her.
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I wondered about Wisconsin as well, but the latest news out of there is that Hillary is in good shape. Not to say it can't be done. He clearly has a shot in a lot of places. A lot will depend on whether or not the previously inactives vote. That's what put Ventura in in Minnesota (but it needs to be pointed out that was a 3-way race). Hillary has the better ground game, but that could be balanced off by greater enthusiasm on the Trump side of the ledger.
 
The problem Trump has is that he has to win all of the true toss up states and pick off a slight lean to Hillary state. A pretty tough thing to do, but not impossible.
 
Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 9m9 minutes ago

Imagine if one of Clinton's top surrogates had two of their aides convicted 4 days before an election for punishing political enemies
 
57Brave said:
Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 9m9 minutes ago

Imagine if one of Clinton's top surrogates had two of their aides convicted 4 days before an election for punishing political enemies
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Remember the Democratic response when it was pointed out Hillary Clinton was in a precarious decision when trying to exploit Trump's sexism and allegations of assault because of who her husband and closest political advisor was? "He's not running?" So does Chris Christie matter and Bill Clinton not?
 
bravesnumberone said:
Remember the Democratic response when it was pointed out Hillary Clinton was in a precarious decision when trying to exploit Trump's sexism and allegations of assault because of who her husband and closest political advisor was? "He's not running?" So does Chris Christie matter and Bill Clinton not?
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yes,
Chris Christie is officially heading Trumps Transition team as we speak.
Bill Clinton is working on menus and table cloth arrangements for dinners and social events at the White House.

I would think meeting with Michelle O for pointers
 
57Brave said:
yes,
Chris Christie is officially heading Trumps Transition team as we speak.
Bill Clinton is working on menus and table cloth arrangements for dinners and social events at the White House.

I would think meeting with Michelle O for pointers
Click to expand...

I cannot wait til Bill gives us the television tour of how he's decorated each of the rooms. Jackie Kennedy, psh.
 
Not saying Christie situation shouldn't be a disqualifying factor for Trump because it should. This is hardly the first thing about the Trump candidacy that would have sank "a normal campaign."

But again, there is selective outrage going on here. Thus, my comment that both parties suck and I refuse to support either of them at this level.
 
Selective outrage, how so ?
This is what (R) has hoped to find in the Wikileaks.

A (R) Governor's office is caught creating a public nuisance to get political retribution.
Find me a like situation involving a (D) Governor
then we can talk "selective outrage"

wasn't an ambulance involved. Not sure if the person died or not but all the same ...
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My thought and said this to Hawk few year ago was Christie was being set up
 
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