The Iran Deal

Runnin

Runnin

Well-known member
Is it good? Doesn't the President and Sec. of State deserve some kudos for getting this thing done, even if it's not perfect?

Isn't diplomacy better than the alternative, especially when the alternative option is always there?

The GOP Presidential candidates seem to have less and less political real estate to stand on. They have enough to field a baseball team and nary an idea from any of them.
 
Diplomacy better than the Alternative? Neville Chamberlain thought so too.

i wouldn't mind the deal if Iran respected the U.S., but they don't.

Iran knows they can do whatever they want to do without repercussions which makes the deal a moot point.
 
Krgrecw said:
Diplomacy better than the Alternative? Neville Chamberlain thought so too.

i wouldn't mind the deal if Iran respected the U.S., but they don't.
Iran knows they can do whatever they want to do without repercussions which makes the deal a moot point.
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So you have vague negativity toward the deal.

I'll bet Iran respects our military budget, our close ties to Israel and our President's international popularity. Any country can do whatever they want. By that reasoning, all deals are moot.
 
People are only looking at the military aspects of the "deal".

Yes, Iran played it's last card - the threat of developing a bomb. I have been hearing about the threat of a nuclear Iran for over 35 years. That card has been taken off the table so, why did Iran play that card???

1) With the sanctions lifted Iran can once again enter at a full blown scale the worlds oil markets. Increased world wide supply means less demands - correct. Lower oil prices for the west. yes a win win for both sides

2) With the sanctions lifted Iran is free to pursue western investment. Of course people in the streets of Tehran are celebrating, not over some abstract nuclear weapon but they get to enter the 21st century economy. Fast foods, cheap computers etc. We take those things for granted but remember -- countries with McDonald's do not go to war against with other countries with McDonald's
War is bad for business it says in Godfather I.
Again, a win win for both sides

One of the reasons I like this is it puts Israel in it's place among world powers. They aren't a world power - they are a satellite of the US. Obama has made that plenty clear to Bibi.
Screw him and the right wing of Israeli politics
 
It's a pathetic deal, another item added to the list of international issues Obama and his administration have gloriously **** the bed on.

Liberals really have no clue how the world works.
 
Hawk said:
It's a pathetic deal, another item added to the list of international issues Obama and his administration have gloriously **** the bed on.

Liberals really have no clue how the world works.
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Yep. The world sees Obama as a joke and America as weak.
 
Hawk said:
It's a pathetic deal, another item added to the list of international issues Obama and his administration have gloriously **** the bed on.

Liberals really have no clue how the world works.
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You're the one who sounds like he has no clue.

Pathetic why? Enlighten us, that's why I started this thread. So far, 57 is the only one with any intelligent info.
 
On the surface, it seems fine as long as it's strictly enforced, and Iran's enrichment ability, which still exists, is closely monitored. And with the sanctions being lifted, we need to be aggressive in making sure their bat**** crazy government doesn't use that as more flexibility for sponsoring terrorism and other anti-U.S. interests.

I think the diplomacy approach is better than the "Do this, or we bomb you and cripple your economy" method.

I also suspect this may lead to lower oil prices in the West, and since we as a country refuse to wean ourselves off foreign oil dependency, that could be beneficial to the American middle class.

I guess I'm still in the wait and see phase. I'll need to study the deal a little more closely.
 
Over/Under on months that the IAEA reports difficulties accessing sites in Iran for inspection?
 
Runnin said:
You're the one who sounds like he has no clue.

Pathetic why? Enlighten us, that's why I started this thread. So far, 57 is the only one with any intelligent info.
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I'd suggest actually reading the terms and making your own analysis, based on pure logic and history, rather than gobbling up what the pundits feed you; hook, line, and sinker.

If you are truly foolish enough to believe that Iran is going to play ball for the next 15 years, then there's nothing more I can really say.
 
I mean... I've literally been hearing about this nuclear bomb since I was old enough to remember.

I still remember Michelle Bachman yelling at Ron Paul, saying "We know without a shaddow of a doubt that Iran is literally within months of obtaining a weapon, and using that weapon to wipe our ally Isreal off the face of the earth."

I remember it being discussed in 2008. I remember it after the 9/11 attacks. I can pull up headlines from 1995 about the imminence of this threat.

Here we are, in 2015, and the beat goes on.
 
Hawk said:
I'd suggest actually reading the terms and making your own analysis, based on pure logic and history, rather than gobbling up what the pundits feed you; hook, line, and sinker.

If you are truly foolish enough to believe that Iran is going to play ball for the next 15 years, then there's nothing more I can really say.
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That may well be true, but how does not having an agreement change the situation? At least we get to perform inspections. In the absence of a deal, that wouldn't have been allowed.

I think the only one you has a real gripe here is Netanyahu and that's more because the agreement constricts his ability to act unilaterally without repercussions than anything else.
 
Iran is interesting.

There's a lot of Pro-America culture within their population. They also had a revolution a few years ago that was suppressed.

It's also interesting if you look at the background of most of their Cabinet members, nearly all of them went to school (college) in a Western country. They know what Western culture is about having lived in it, and Iran is probably the closest country in the Middle East to achieving that.

The irony is, Iran has a population that's very progressive and Pro-America for middle eastern standards. It's just their government that hates us and we label them as the ultimate evil in the world. On the other hand, we're best friends with the Saudi's, and they are a human rights violation machine, breeding grounds for terrorist, populace that hates us, and our Presidents have held hands and bowed before their king.

This might be one of the only things I'd ever agree with sturg on with, is that we should always try diplomacy first. Yes the world is complicated. Frankly we may already have been best friends with Iran right now if it weren't for the CIA overthrowing their democratically elected government years ago, and then of course Cowboy Bush labeling them in the Axis of Evil just months after they actually worked with us during the invasion of Afghanistan.
 
As long as we can wipe an entire country and their existence off the face of this earth with a flick of a switch, we will never have a legitimately dangerous enemy.

The government just always has to make us believe we have an enemy to keep military spending far beyond what is necessary to protect us.
 
50PoundHead said:
That may well be true, but how does not having an agreement change the situation? At least we get to perform inspections. In the absence of a deal, that wouldn't have been allowed.
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But I think you know it's not that simple: we're giving Iran access to $100 billion in frozen assets well before we're going to have any real 'verified' evidence of compliance. And if they don't comply, which given well-evidenced history wouldn't be surprising, they still have their nuclear infrastructure fully intact and haven't really lost anything (except Western trust, and I'm sure that means a lot to them).

I don't have any problems making an agreement with Iran, but I do have issue with making a toothless one.

Make no bones about it, this deal is based completely and entirely on appeasement and trust -- and I don't trust the Iranians. Why should I?

I think the only one you has a real gripe here is Netanyahu and that's more because the agreement constricts his ability to act unilaterally without repercussions than anything else.
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Netanyahu just won reelection almost solely because he publicly and aggressively took the White House to task over Iran. I'd personally say that's a pretty clear mandate to act unilaterally on the issue, but let's not kid ourselves: the Israelis are going to do what they want irrespective of repercussions.
 
sturg33 said:
I mean... I've literally been hearing about this nuclear bomb since I was old enough to remember.

I still remember Michelle Bachman yelling at Ron Paul, saying "We know without a shaddow of a doubt that Iran is literally within months of obtaining a weapon, and using that weapon to wipe our ally Isreal off the face of the earth."

I remember it being discussed in 2008. I remember it after the 9/11 attacks. I can pull up headlines from 1995 about the imminence of this threat.

Here we are, in 2015, and the beat goes on.
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Why do you think they don't have a bomb? Because they don't want one?
 
Hawk said:
Why do you think they don't have a bomb? Because they don't want one?
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They can't even make enough gasoline for themselves. They've been trying to make a bomb for 30 years and still can't do it.

And then even if they did, so what? Do you actually think they're going to launch it? Why are we allowed to have thousands and them none. The world community would give them more respect if they had a bomb, so I don't blame them for trying to get one.

(I don't want them to get a bomb - I want everyone to have far less... but it's not difficult to imagine why other countries hate us while we tell everyone what to do)
 
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