The Last Dance

[Runnin]

Has everyone seen this?

Very interesting and well-done, imo, but I've only watched about half so far. Surprised at all the F-bombs they let into the final cut, but glad they did. I knew of Pippen's displeasure but not the extent of it and certainly not the deep dislike of Jerry Krause by the team leaders. Seems a little unfair considering he made all the trades and decisions that made that team. Without him they don't have one championship.

The frank interviews and recollections paint a very realistic portrait of all the players, coaches and management, exposing plenty of warts for all to see. Kudos for that.

But I was a Jordan/Bulls fan during those years. I wonder what others think of this documentary.

 

[zitothebrave]

A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

I will say something and walk away

Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.

 

[The Tariff King]

A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

I will say something and walk away

Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.

In fairness, when LeBron left both times, the owner said he was gonna blow up the team and did.

When Jordan retired the first time, they still had most of that core around Pippen.

 

[Krgrecw]

A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

I will say something and walk away

Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Jordan had final say and he either buried everyone he had a problem with or they ended up with bad edits.


It’s Bull**** they didn’t come clean on the whole baseball thing.

 

[zitothebrave]

In fairness, when LeBron left both times, the owner said he was gonna blow up the team and did.

When Jordan retired the first time, they still had most of that core around Pippen.

Cavs lost 2 other players in 2010. Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair. Telfair basically didn't play for the Cavs the year before.

Miami lost basically no one, Wade and Bosh re-signed, and they signed Whiteside who has been great for Miami. The 17 loss differences.

Cavs lost basically filler players after 2018, like Kendrick Perkins and Jose Calderon.

Jordan left and the Bulls were a playoff team. Lebron left the "dream team" in Miami and Miami took a huge drop. From NBA finals to 3rd in the division and missed the playoffs.

 

[thethe]

Nba contractually was much different and kucoc was signed the year jordan left so the team was still getting infusion of talent. The 95 year the bulls weren't all that good prior to Michael coming back.

 

[zitothebrave]

Nba contractually was much different and kucoc was signed the year jordan left so the team was still getting infusion of talent. The 95 year the bulls weren't all that good prior to Michael coming back.

They were 34-31. What team Lebron Left was .500 after he left? Heat Sign Deng after Lebron left.

Stop acting like the reason the bulls were over .500 without Jordan was Kukoc or anyone else. It was Scottie Pippen. Jordan had the luxury of playing with one of the best SF to play the game. When you make a list of the best SF to play the game, it goes.

1. LeBron
2. Bird
3. Dr. J
4. Baylor
5. Pippin

Though Durant could easily pass over some of them. Jordan is great. But LeBron only had a Pippin level teammate ever once, Wade. And that Heat team was as great as any Bulls team.

Would be an interesting battle, Jordan and Pippin vs. LeBron and Wade with 3 other equals around them, who wins. I think Pippin and Jordan wins because I think Pippin is one of the most underrated players ever because his defensive work was amazing. Question in that game is could LeBron shut down Jordan. Which I don't consider likely because Jordan is the best scorer to ever lace up sneakers.

 

[Runnin]

A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

I will say something and walk away

Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.

MJ's drive, the triangle and Phil Jackson made "the team" better. Everyone around Jordan had to elevate their games. It was more of a team effort.

Lebron's style of play, point forward and every play goes through him, stifles play and stunts the growth of his supporting cast.

 

[Runnin]

I never knew that about Steve Kerr's dad, nor the importance of MJ's security guys.

Pippen probably had more natural talent than Jordan. He could do everything Michael could except shoot, but he had more wing span and could elevate and get open easier. He only lacked the obsessive ambition and intensity to win about all else. And he had a couple of weak character moments.

Karl Malone showed a lot of class going onto the bus. Detroit, not so much.

 

[thewupk]

A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

I will say something and walk away

Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.

What? Pippen did that to himself. Sitting on the bench in the playoffs when he wasn't getting the ball and delaying his surgery on purpose were bitch moves. He then had a chance to tell his story and apologize if he felt the need to but said he would do them all over again. That's obviously his choice but that's not Jordan ****ting on him.

 

[Tapate50]

What? Pippen did that to himself. Sitting on the bench in the playoffs when he wasn't getting the ball and delaying his surgery on purpose were bitch moves. He then had a chance to tell his story and apologize if he felt the need to but said he would do them all over again. That's obviously his choice but that's not Jordan ****ting on him.

This was my view of it as well.

 

[goldfly]

who gives a **** about lebron


for **** sake


one of the best sports documentaries ever. was awesome. this past sunday sucked when i remembered we weren't getting any more episodes

 

[acesfull86]

I never knew that about Steve Kerr's dad, nor the importance of MJ's security guys.

I knew about Kerr's dad, but I was surprised to hear that Kerr and Jordan never really talked about the fact that both of their fathers were killed. I guess it fits with Jordan's personality, but I would've thought two teammates who shared such a rare, traumatic experience would've talked about it.

 

[acesfull86]

Overall I loved the doc. I wouldn't say I heard a lot I didn't already know, but it was great to revisit that whole 90's NBA era. In the lead up to the doc, it felt like people in the know were predicting some kind of bombshell, and Jordan himself was worried about whether people would view him negatively, but for me, that moment never came. Some light hazing of Scott Burrell, but nothing worse than you'd hear in a pickup game at a city park. And the way he took any perceived slight, real or imagined, so personally, was already a known part of his legend. If anything, I came out of the doc viewing Jordan more positively.

I know it was called the Last Dance and was based around footage saved from the '98 season, but I wanted to get a look at his post-2nd retirement life. He said at the end of the doc he wanted to get the band back together and go for #7 and it was incredibly frustrating not to get a chance. I would've liked to see how he adjusted to life and dealt with those years in between '98 and his 2nd comeback with the Wizards. Also would've loved to examine why his tenure as an executive/owner has gone so poorly, but obviously you're not going to get that from him.

Not sure if I'm just jaded by the social media era, but for me, Jordan just comes across as more genuine than the superstars of this more recent era. He was obviously brand conscious ("Republicans buy sneakers too"), but watching the doc I always got the impression his decisions were made in the moment, driven by his intense competitiveness. The path his career took reads like a script, but didn't feel scripted.

 

[zitothebrave]

What? Pippen did that to himself. Sitting on the bench in the playoffs when he wasn't getting the ball and delaying his surgery on purpose were bitch moves. He then had a chance to tell his story and apologize if he felt the need to but said he would do them all over again. That's obviously his choice but that's not Jordan ****ting on him.

You don't know he had his chance to tell his story. This is MJ's documentary. It's an autobiography. It would be like Amazon Studios making a documentary of Jeff Bezos or Apple making a documentary on Steve Jobs.

Pippen did the surgery late because of ****ty ownership. MJ should have applauded him because early season games are worthless.

As far as benching himself, it was a developing moment for him. Everyone says that it was humbling to him and he would come along as a leader. And how can Jordan talk about something he wasn't involved with?

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...s-michael-jordan-lied-last-dance-calls-snitch

 

[Runnin]

You don't know he had his chance to tell his story. This is MJ's documentary. It's an autobiography.

That's going a little far. It was not an autobiography but Jordan was the main character, as he should've been. While I'm sure he had final editing powers, he came off looking as more flawed than anyone else. Compared to MJ, even Rodman seemed more normal.

 

[Runnin]

All the talk of MJ and golf made me curious. Although I saw it written several places and I know he plays 36 holes almost everyday, after watching his golf swing there is no way I believe he plays to a 1 or 2 handicap.

If he ever breaks 80 with that swing it's through constant repetition and will power.

 

[The Tariff King]

All the talk of MJ and golf made me curious. Although I saw it written several places and I know he plays 36 holes almost everyday, after watching his golf swing there is no way I believe he plays to a 1 or 2 handicap.

If he ever breaks 80 with that swing it's through constant repetition and will power.

In fairness, in the documentary the golf swings the show are from him in the 80's (although they might've showed him swinging when the Bulls were in Arizona).

I'm sure since he retired he had way more time to focus on golf.

 

[Runnin]

In fairness, in the documentary the golf swings the show are from him in the 80's (although they might've showed him swinging when the Bulls were in Arizona).

I'm sure since he retired he had way more time to focus on golf.

The swings I watched on youtube were the most recent I could find. I actually like his earlier swings, more free and easy, and was expecting it to be better after all the time he's put into it. But tons of repetition can cover up a lot of flaws. That and 40 sets of clubs to choose from doesn't hurt either.

 

[zitothebrave]

All the talk of MJ and golf made me curious. Although I saw it written several places and I know he plays 36 holes almost everyday, after watching his golf swing there is no way I believe he plays to a 1 or 2 handicap.

If he ever breaks 80 with that swing it's through constant repetition and will power.

I think you're right about repetition and will power. I mean consider that MJ is old, and basketball is very hard on the legs and back. Find the number of 60 year old former star athletes who're great at golf, I'm guessing the list is short.