The next time anyone...

[nsacpi]

What's even more sad is that if Floyd doesn't get injured, Wood probably doesn't get put back into the rotation for quite sometime. He may have pitched in the double header, but that's it.

I think he would have been back in the rotation sometime this summer even if all our starters had stayed healthy. The front office can see just as well as we can how talented he is.

 

[UNCBlue012]

Alex Wood is a trainwreck waiting to happen health wise, might as well enjoy him while he lasts .

I'm sick of seeing this. Yes, he's had TJ already and yes, his mechanics are odd, but there's not much that proves it will happen. Could it? Yes. But, let's pray not... I personally think this guy could be as good if not better than Teheran, and I have a lot of love for Julio.

 

[Enscheff]

I'm sick of seeing this. Yes, he's had TJ already and yes, his mechanics are odd, but there's not much that proves it will happen. Could it? Yes. But, let's pray not... I personally think this guy could be as good if not better than Teheran, and I have a lot of love for Julio.

I'm to the point now where I just assume the pitching staff is going to lose 1-3 pitchers per year to TJ. Julio and Minor are due for theirs either this year or next, which means the organization has to have 6-7 starting options available at any given time. Every time folks worry about "too much pitching" someone gets hurt...because someone ALWAYS gets hurt.

This is why I see Wren giving Santana a QO at the end of the year, and he will probably accept it.

 

[zitothebrave]

I'm sick of seeing this. Yes, he's had TJ already and yes, his mechanics are odd, but there's not much that proves it will happen. Could it? Yes. But, let's pray not... I personally think this guy could be as good if not better than Teheran, and I have a lot of love for Julio.

I don't want him to get hurt, but history of guys needing Tommy John before 25 having super long and productive careers isn't a long one.

 

[NinersSBChamps]

I don't want him to get hurt, but history of guys needing Tommy John before 25 having super long and productive careers isn't a long one.

You can't say this.
-Heyward

I told him ever since Beachy was shutdown last season that we needed to be worried. He informed me that it was just "a touch up."

 

[GovClintonTyree]

I don't want him to get hurt, but history of guys needing Tommy John before 25 having super long and productive careers isn't a long one.

Roger Clemens.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

I'm to the point now where I just assume the pitching staff is going to lose 1-3 pitchers per year to TJ. Julio and Minor are due for theirs either this year or next, which means the organization has to have 6-7 starting options available at any given time. Every time folks worry about "too much pitching" someone gets hurt...because someone ALWAYS gets hurt.

This is why I see Wren giving Santana a QO at the end of the year, and he will probably accept it.

If the sumbitch can't keep his ERA under five, I'm thinking not.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

I'm sick of seeing this. Yes, he's had TJ already and yes, his mechanics are odd, but there's not much that proves it will happen. Could it? Yes. But, let's pray not... I personally think this guy could be as good if not better than Teheran, and I have a lot of love for Julio.

I actually like his mechanics.

 

[Carp]

Hang around a bunch of 11-12 year olds for long enough and you might feel differently. Three or four kids on my son's team playing elite or travel ball and subject to double innings pitching, catching too, and pitching competitively at times I was playing basketball or soccer. Kids are talked into believing they need to specialize year-round to be seen and get scholarships. It's become a rich kid's sport, too. These programs are routinely $1500-3000/yr. So you better believe they're max effort.

I think he's right on the money.

And what about Latino players who play year round from a very young age? Why hasn't there been a higher attrition rate for them through the yrs?

Again, it could certainly play a factor. But its lazy research to blame TJS on too many innings when they are young.

 

[zitothebrave]

And what about Latino players who play year round from a very young age? Why hasn't there been a higher attrition rate for them through the yrs?

Again, it could certainly play a factor. But its lazy research to blame TJS on too many innings when they are young.

Nor does it explain why some guys have TJ before making it to the majors, some way later, so on so forth. Just saying kids are throwing more is a lazy excuse. I know kids who were wrecked by that throwing system, and they didn't sniff the majors before their arms were wrecked. So yeah it's a problem, but I don't think it's the real problem. The real problem I still contest is poor mechanics. I think there's a reason why some guys don't ever get hurt and others are hurt more often.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

Nor does it explain why some guys have TJ before making it to the majors, some way later, so on so forth. Just saying kids are throwing more is a lazy excuse. I know kids who were wrecked by that throwing system, and they didn't sniff the majors before their arms were wrecked. So yeah it's a problem, but I don't think it's the real problem. The real problem I still contest is poor mechanics. I think there's a reason why some guys don't ever get hurt and others are hurt more often.

http://www.asmi.org/research.php?page=research&section=TJpositionstatement

I didn't find the research particularly lazy. It's Dr. Andrews' research organization. Cites studies and everything, footnotes 'em and everything.

Carpe, I think the difference with Latin players is that they're not in balls-out competition year 'round. In order to condition the arm, you need to throw. A lot. But max effort competition is a lot different than, say, sandlot in November or January. Somewhere I heard one of the leading Latin American scouts saying Latinos are given a chance to "grow into" their velocity.

And Zito, he lists a series of contributing factors, not just one, and poor mechanics is one of them, of course.

 

[zitothebrave]

I do want to add that I don't think kids should throw a pitch until they're in high school, but that will never happen.

 

[Carp]

http://www.asmi.org/research.php?page=research§ion=TJpositionstatement

I didn't find the research particularly lazy. It's Dr. Andrews' research organization. Cites studies and everything, footnotes 'em and everything.

Carpe, I think the difference with Latin players is that they're not in balls-out competition year 'round. In order to condition the arm, you need to throw. A lot. But max effort competition is a lot different than, say, sandlot in November or January. Somewhere I heard one of the leading Latin American scouts saying Latinos are given a chance to "grow into" their velocity.

And Zito, he lists a series of contributing factors, not just one, and poor mechanics is one of them, of course.

From the article:

"Not true. A recent survey [unpublished] revealed no difference in the prevalence of Tommy John surgery between pitchers from the U.S. and pitchers from Latin America. The survey showed that 16% of U.S. born-pitchers and 16% of Latin American pitchers in professional baseball have a history of Tommy John surgery."

So obviously American players are no more or less likely than Latino players to have TJS

Not to mention it gives no mention of age ranges, sample size, etc. There is simply not nearly enough information to just blindly assume that the overuse at young ages is the main culprit in the rise of TJS (which I question is even that dramatic). And calling it an "epidemic" is quite laughable and borders on scare tactic journalism.

 

[DirkPiggler]

I do want to add that I don't think kids should throw a pitch until they're in high school, but that will never happen.

That would cause one hell of a spike in sales of the Blue Flame machine.

My recommendation would be that they are only allowed to throw fastballs and change ups until age 18. Maybe let them start with breaking balls in high school, but definitely not before then. Elite travel ball will make sure that doesn't happen though.

 

[PurpleBrave]

Suggests Alex Wood to the bullpen, they need fired on the spot. The young man was masterful tonight.

I just heard Greg Walker suggest it.

 

[Fredi Gonzalez]

I do want to add that I don't think kids should throw a pitch until they're in high school, but that will never happen.

This is probably correct. I remember Greinke didn't start pitching until 6 months before the draft and he has been one of the healthiest pitchers of his Era.

 

[KB21]

I keep seeing this thrown around recently. There really isn't a strong basis for this opinion. Players get injured all the time. Pitching simply isn't a natural motion, and some mechanics are simply harder on the arm than others. It's likely most of these same players would be looking at surgery regardless of how many innngs they pitched when they were 12. Also, if this were true, you would probably have seen a higher injury rate for Latino players since they play basically year round from the time they are old enough to walk.

Which is not to say that it couldn't be related. It certainly could be. But it just seems like people have been taking Dr. Andrews statement and lazily been throwing it around as fact.

The data shows it though.

The increase in ulnar collateral ligament replacement surgeries performed on young and high school pitchers coincides with the increase in young pitchers playing travel ball and pitching year round. When I was playing ball in high school, we really didn't have multiple travel ball options. We played legion ball, and we camped at one of the local universities. Most of the time, we got rest. I wasn't a pitcher though. I was an outfielder, thought I did get brought in to pitch in legion ball one year. Beaned the first guy and walked the next guy on 4 pitches.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

It's not just Dr. Andrews' opinion. They've actually been collecting data on this and building the case. It just comports with what Dr. Andrews thinks.

I think the max effort thing is a big part of it. When you look at old newsreels of Warren Spahn and the like, they're long and loose and not really firing like their arm could explode any minute. And you look at the number of innings pitched in the early part of the last century (500 per season, in some cases) and there's no way they did that with max effort.

Max effort, year round, competition, mechanics, young.