The Shunning of Ryan T. Anderson

[AerchAngel]

And for the record I don't think churches should be forced to marry gays. But I'm against churches and religion altogether so it's a moot point.

Good. That was my premise. I am religious but I don't belong to any churches because each of them have their own set of rules and I will respect them. Doesn't mean I agree with them. It is just safer to keep a distance from any of them.

 

[AerchAngel]

Right. No one is saying ban gay marriage, but less than a decade ago one of the hot button issues in national politics was a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. DADT was struck down not even 4 years ago.

These things are still relevant.

I don't think they should ban gay marriage. If they want to go before the judge and get married, have at it, just don't expect many churches to acknowledge it. That is all I am saying and they should respect those feelings as well.

 

[jpx7]

Link...Do those who favor gay marriage really want to win by stamping out dissent and driving into the wilderness every person who holds a contrary position?

Well I certainly disdain and reject "theological certainties".

 

[sturg33]

Well let's see here.

When you have a segment of your population trying to push constitutional amendments and state laws that ban gay marriage or discriminate gays, you're simply going to "get over it"?

If gay marriage were legal tomorrow in all 50 states we wouldn't have this issue. Soon could be another 10-15 years in some states. Why should anyone have to wait that long to get married?

The issue doesn't directly effect you or me because we're not gay, but it's pretty cowardly to say "get over it" in this situation to a segment of the population that was discriminated against openly for quite a long time and even to this day.

Im not talking about the legality of anything. I'm talking about the chick fil a stuff, the duck dynasty stuff, the pizzeria stuff, the wedding cake stuff, this former student... all.bc of an opposing viewpoint that doesn't affect the law.

Get the **** over it

 

[Hawk]

But I'm against churches and religion altogether

 

[Garmel]

I don't care if it's overboard just like I don't care for most political correctness.

The point being Im tired of religion altogether. Christianity, Judaism, Islam doesn't matter.

When religion keeps getting tied to politics, we can't move forward on fixing things and creating a better future for the next generations of humans.

LOL! You're too much, SAV.

 

[57Brave]

Im not talking about the legality of anything. I'm talking about the chick fil a stuff, the duck dynasty stuff, the pizzeria stuff, the wedding cake stuff, this former student... all.bc of an opposing viewpoint that doesn't affect the law.

Get the **** over it

and if it wasnt for the high profile stuff chic fil a , wedding cakes or duck dynasty etc no one would talk about it and the whole issue would be isolated to gay people.
Gay people are not going to get their rights unless straight people agree. How do you expect them to agree or disagree if it is never brought up in public and turned into a spectacle? This issue has been on the radear since 1969.
Guess where you live never heard of "we're queer and we're here ... "
That is how things get changed in a democracy

Dont you understand anything ?

...........

I'm amazed at the latest generation of posters and how they view the world (both sports and social) in a vacuum.
That might be fodder for a thread on it's own

 

[sturg33]

and if it wasnt for the high profile stuff chic fil a , wedding cakes or duck dynasty etc no one would talk about it and the whole issue would be isolated to gay people.
Gay people are not going to get their rights unless straight people agree. How do you expect them to agree or disagree if it is never brought up in public and turned into a spectacle? This issue has been on the radear since 1969.
Guess where you live never heard of "we're queer and we're here ... "
That is how things get changed in a democracy

Dont you understand anything ?

...........

I'm amazed at the latest generation of posters and how they view the world (both sports and social) in a vacuum.
That might be fodder for a thread on it's own

I would love to see the reaction of the left if Christians attacked companies like starbucks and amazon and countless other with fury that the left attacks businesses like Chick Fila. I can already see then "hateful bigots" jargon that we're so used to.

But when the left threatens to burn down a pizza restaurant because the owner says he doesn't support same sex marriage? Yeah - that real love there

 

[Julio3000]

I would love to see the reaction of the left if Christians attacked companies like starbucks and amazon and countless other with fury that the left attacks businesses like Chick Fila. I can already see then "hateful bigots" jargon that we're so used to.

But when the left threatens to burn down a pizza restaurant because the owner says he doesn't support same sex marriage? Yeah - that real love there

If? That's a good one.

Also, if "the left" is threatening to burn down pizza parlors, I probably need to check my email more often, since I must have missed the meeting where that was decided.

 

[sturg33]

If? That's a good one.

Also, if "the left" is threatening to burn down pizza parlors, I probably need to check my email more often, since I must have missed the meeting where that was decided.

I mean - look at the story in this post? The school ran away from one of their own because he has a viewpoint that opposes gay marriage?

So we are only tolerant if we all agree?

 

[goldfly]

Link

...Do those who favor gay marriage really want to win by stamping out dissent and driving into the wilderness every person who holds a contrary position?

just like those that didn't think women, blacks etc etc were equal

i really don't care if they are driven out of our society and pushed underground

call me a thug if you want for having that opinion, it won't upset me

 

[Julio3000]

I mean - look at the story in this post? The school ran away from one of their own because he has a viewpoint that opposes gay marriage?

So we are only tolerant if we all agree?

They took down a link to his bio. It's not like they threw him in the Lubyanka, beat him with hoses and forced him to confess to sabotage and impeding the progress of world socialism, which is kinda what's being implied. Was it arguably a dumb move? Sure. Was the man materially harmed? Not in the least. If an honorable and accomplished man losing a link on a website to institutional groupthink is worth this kind of hand-wringing, maybe we should examine what it might be like for one's sexual orientation to be considered a treatable defect or a mental illness?

I see an organized "We're not the bigots—YOU'RE the bigots!" strategy that runs top to bottom in the rw media, particularly where it intersects with religion. It's a concerted effort to do some damage control and try to shift public opinion, since they've tended to lose the legal, electoral, and demographic scraps on this issue. It's just the next tactic.

 

[sturg33]

They took down a link to his bio. It's not like they threw him in the Lubyanka, beat him with hoses and forced him to confess to sabotage and impeding the progress of world socialism, which is kinda what's being implied. Was it arguably a dumb move? Sure. Was the man materially harmed? Not in the least. If an honorable and accomplished man losing a link on a website to institutional groupthink is worth this kind of hand-wringing, maybe we should examine what it might be like for one's sexual orientation to be considered a treatable defect or a mental illness?

I see an organized "We're not the bigots—YOU'RE the bigots!" strategy that runs top to bottom in the rw media, particularly where it intersects with religion. It's a concerted effort to do some damage control and try to shift public opinion, since they've tended to lose the legal, electoral, and demographic scraps on this issue. It's just the next tactic.

i couldn't care less about the legal aspect of it. I'm a libertarian and support gay marriage.

But the outward hate and disgust of anyone who disagrees has gone way over the top in my opinion. Tough to support people like that

 

[Julio3000]

i couldn't care less about the legal aspect of it. I'm a libertarian and support gay marriage.

But the outward hate and disgust of anyone who disagrees has gone way over the top in my opinion. Tough to support people like that

Sure. Everyone is—or should be—accountable for how they handle the human-to-human aspect of any disagreement. Nobody inherently owns any kind of moral high ground there. Still, I'm probably not seeing the tipping point where activists become bloody-knuckled brownshirts in the same place that you do.

 

[BedellBrave]

Well I certainly disdain and reject "theological certainties".

Only some.

 

[BedellBrave]

just like those that didn't think women, blacks etc etc were equal

i really don't care if they are driven out of our society and pushed underground

call me a thug if you want for having that opinion, it won't upset me

That was the liberal, pro-SSM author that's calling you a thug.

I called you a totalitarian.

 

[BedellBrave]

Sure. Everyone is—or should be—accountable for how they handle the human-to-human aspect of any disagreement. Nobody inherently owns any kind of moral high ground there. Still, I'm probably not seeing the tipping point where activists become bloody-knuckled brownshirts in the same place that you do.

Wouldn't expect you to. Though, I'm not really comfortable with where you'd see it. Certainly not where your compadres on here would.

 

[Julio3000]

Wouldn't expect you to. Though, I'm not really comfortable with where you'd see it. Certainly not were your compadres on here would.

BB, in my adult lifetime, elected officials from my hometown passed a resolution that stated that homosexuality was incompatible with the values of the community. There's really no way to spin that other than saying that it meant "queers not welcome." Several local merchants in the community took offense and posted rainbow stickers, etc, in their storefronts as a protest. Many of those businesses were vandalized and their proprietors harassed. That's the context that I've grown up with. So, when balanced against some people's vitriol about the rights of others to live and love as they choose, I set a pretty high bar with regard to those same folks' religious sensibilities being offended. Those people still have the right to worship and speak as suits their conscience. Nothing, nothing at all, has been denied them except their status as upholders of the purported majority opinion. Call me when kids are getting beaten up in school for being anti-gay—as kids were most assuredly being beaten up for being gay, or being perceived as gay, or being friends of gays, as they were when I was in school. Call me when the pro-gay mobs are running the streets and smashing windows and intimidating the Christian communities who are just trying to worship in peace. Short of that, just accept the fact that religious groups have organized boycotts of businesses perceived a being pro-gay for decades, and accept with grace that turnabout is fair play. You don't have to change your mind, submit, bend the knee, or whatever overheated metaphor you choose this week...just maybe accept with grace the fact that the world has changed a bit, and don't assume that those changes entitle you to the mantle of the victim. It's not a zero-sum game.

Is Ryan Anderson deprived of a public platform? Is he hounded into silence? Driven underground by the pinkshirts? Would you expect Bob Jones University or a similar institution to point with pride to a graduate who became an eloquent advocate of gay rights? I'm just not sure that, in this cry for fair play, that you're really taking into consideration what that phrase means. Maybe some of us have lived so long with the deck stacked a particular way that any change seems like persecution, when it is actually something more like parity.

 

[BedellBrave]

BB, in my adult lifetime, elected officials from my hometown passed a resolution that stated that homosexuality was incompatible with the values of the community. There's really no way to spin that other than saying that it meant "queers not welcome." Several local merchants in the community took offense and posted rainbow stickers, etc, in their storefronts as a protest. Many of those businesses were vandalized and their proprietors harassed. That's the context that I've grown up with. So, when balanced against some people's vitriol about the rights of others to live and love as they choose, I set a pretty high bar with regard to those same folks' religious sensibilities being offended. Those people still have the right to worship and speak as suits their conscience. Nothing, nothing at all, has been denied them except their status as upholders of the purported majority opinion. Call me when kids are getting beaten up in school for being anti-gay—as kids were most assuredly being beaten up for being gay, or being perceived as gay, or being friends of gays, as they were when I was in school. Call me when the pro-gay mobs are running the streets and smashing windows and intimidating the Christian communities who are just trying to worship in peace. Short of that, just accept the fact that religious groups have organized boycotts of businesses perceived a being pro-gay for decades, and accept with grace that turnabout is fair play. You don't have to change your mind, submit, bend the knee, or whatever overheated metaphor you choose this week...just maybe accept with grace the fact that the world has changed a bit, and don't assume that those changes entitle you to the mantle of the victim. It's not a zero-sum game.

Is Ryan Anderson deprived of a public platform? Is he hounded into silence? Driven underground by the pinkshirts? Would you expect Bob Jones University or a similar institution to point with pride to a graduate who became an eloquent advocate of gay rights? I'm just not sure that, in this cry for fair play, that you're really taking into consideration what that phrase means. Maybe some of us have lived so long with the deck stacked a particular way that any change seems like persecution, when it is actually something more like parity.

Two wrongs and all...

Julio, you'll just keep moving things back. I accept that. You'll be more careful than others. I already know of threats upon certain churches where they are having to seriously consider adding security. I know of other incidents through the past few years, but every time I might mention them, i get this sort of reaction. I'm resigned to the fact that the counter you will make is like the one above. It is what it is.

Why don't we just call thugs (and no I'm not using that as a racial slur) on any side thugs?

 

[jpx7]

Only some.

Explain.

(Or, since I'm assuming you're opting to call me out instead of take my bait: explain which specific "theological certainties" you think I personally do not cast out.)