nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
That's an interesting take that has crossed my mind. But I'm a neocon of sorts. I dont think it is a consideration for the Chosen One. I doubt very much it is part of his thinking.
The Trump Presidency
- Thread starter The Tariff King
- Start date
That's an interesting take that has crossed my mind. But I'm a neocon of sorts. I dont think it is a consideration for the Chosen One. I doubt very much it is part of his thinking.
Any CEO surrounds themselves with trusted advisors. While Trump seems like he is close to needing a seat on the sidelines he has someone or a group of people who are getting things right.
Its those people that are important. Trunp is a messenger and his track record shows hes an effective one.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Maybe he will stumble upon Brazil while looking for China. Good luck with that.
Im sorry you are so personally involved to not see what is happening. Youll come to realize at some point. I have faith in you.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
I do not claim that he has diagnosed any specific problem correctly. But understand that I am not and have never been a free market Republican. I have always fallen in with the Democrats, at least until the last decade or two, in supporting protectionist trade policies and private sector unions.
I have seen interviews from the 90s where Trump railed against the unfairness of our trade with China. I'm also aware that until shortly before he decided to run for President he identified as a Democrat. Putting those long term facts into the equation, I suspect that he has a sense of China eating our lunch without a clear understanding of all the intricacies. I can relate to that.
If lashing out with tough rhetoric and wild tariffs is his reflex, well, that's a lot better way of addressing it than literally any other President has used. I think someone on this board posted a nice twitter thread about the problem of dealing with China's policies. We can't respond in kind to their theft of IP, or manipulation of currency, or manufacturing subsidies. Tariffs are the club that is being used because there really isn't a scalpel.
But to be clear, I would love the protectionism even without the China problem. I see free trade as a boon to the top tenth of a percent at the expense of the lower and middle classes. College economic theory disagrees with me (and our nation's recent history), and I'm okay with that. They'll get tired of being wrong eventually.
Runnin
Well-known member
The current regime certainly feels the pressure to make a deal. Xi can be removed from power if the ruling class see's enough unrest where their future is challenged.
Short term attitude. What are the ramifications of these jobs not being in the US for manufacturing? I guess its great that someone is saving 5 dollars on a cheap shirt though.
No country is like the US. We could produce a larger percentage of the goods needed to sustain a country than any other place in the world.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
People all across Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and the rest of the Rust Belt turned out to vote for Trump because of free trade's track record and impact on the blue collar class.
And we haven't touched on the fact that our "free trade" partners are often using subsidized manufacturing. That hardly fits the ideals of free trade theory. Does it make sense for our country to practice free trade with those who do not reciprocate? Our commercial shipbuilding industry, and when it began its precipitous decline, would say no.
And we haven't touched on the fact that our "free trade" partners are often using subsidized manufacturing. That hardly fits the ideals of free trade theory. Does it make sense for our country to practice free trade with those who do not reciprocate? Our commercial shipbuilding industry, and when it began its precipitous decline, would say no.
This is simply untrue.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I'm not arguing against the fact that many people in those states have a similar view to yours. I'm actually arguing two different matters:
1) The wisdom of those views. There is an issue about the lack of upward mobility of certain demographic groups. It is an important issue. And I would like to see it properly diagnosed. The patient is not always the best person to look to for a diagnosis.
2) I also think that the "protectionism" that you are longing for is not in fact what the Chosen One is pursuing. He is replacing one trade deal with Canada and Mexico with another. When you compare the two deals there are some things better in one and some things better in the other. But the new deal (assuming it passes Congress) does not represent any sort of break with existing trade policy. It tinkers at the edges. Similarly, what is going to come out of this tariff war with China will very much resemble the current arrangement, at least in terms of its impact on ordinary American consumers and workers. So we will have gone through a tax increase for consumers (tariffs), disruptions to supply chains, an economic slowdown, pain and anxiety to our farmers for very little. What's the point.
As for subsidies, I say bring em on. If someone offers to subsidize anything I'm buying, I'm quite happy to accept.
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Multiplied millions of times over. Thou hast just committed a fallacy of composition. Shame on thee.
Every single family that has done back to school shopping has saved a bundle of money due to trade.
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And when the cost of sales goes to anoher country you lose payroll and tax revenue in the US.
You are making the mostake in assuminh cheap isngood for everyone.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I'm not assuming cheap is better. The point is based upon choices millions of consumers make. Some prefer more expensive and higher quality. Others prefer cheap. That's their choice. I wouldn't presume to tell people what choices to make when they go shopping.
Just checked the label on my shirt. Madagascar. Hey. Don't take away my Malgache shirt.
And I'll add something that to me is an important part of this discussion. Malgache are children of God. As are Chinese. And Guatamalans. And Indians. And Nigerians. My concern for the well being of my fellow human beings is all encompassing. It is not restricted by geography or nationality. I don't expect other people to share this view. But it is mine. Thanks to trade, an enormous number of my fellow human beings have been lifted from poverty in the past 30 years. And millions more will experience the same in coming decades. It is not something I want to see thrown away due to a misdiagnosis about what ails blue collar workers in this country.
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