The Trump Presidency

nsacpi said:
I made the assertion more as a bit of chest thumping than anything else. I am an immigrant. I have a wide circle of family members, friends and acquaintances who are also immigrants. It is fair to describe my assertion as one having more of an anecdotal basis than a hard scientific one. I certainly have nothing but respect for people born in this country. And I don't think it is asking for too much to expect some reciprocity for myself and my fellow immigrants. Thus my rhetorical flourish in responding to another poster's claim that "people bring their awful ideas with them and will turn America into a socialist country." I believe that statement has much less basis in reality than my claim (admittedly one that contains an element of hyperbole) that immigrants have a greater appreciation of the values upon which this country is based.
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My old neighborhood had the most American family I've ever seen. They were always tossing a ball in the driveway, working in the yard, walking the dog, washing the car, volunteering at church, and the kids had the best manners imaginable.
The parents were first generation immigrants from Mexico. My neighbors now are first gen from Brazil and I hope our kids get married one day. I've known plenty of others who were similar, and also known others who seemed to resent everything about America. Basically, they were people like everyone else.
 
Jaw said:
My old neighborhood had the most American family I've ever seen. They were always tossing a ball in the driveway, working in the yard, walking the dog, washing the car, volunteering at church, and the kids had the best manners imaginable.
The parents were first generation immigrants from Mexico. My neighbors now are first gen from Brazil and I hope our kids get married one day. I've known plenty of others who were similar, and also known others who seemed to resent everything about America. Basically, they were people like everyone else.
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True. People like everyone else. For the better and worse. No group is perfect. No group deserves to be reviled. Just some have better cooking.
 
Carp said:
So does isolationism.
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The vast overrepresentaion of migrants in Europe's crime statistics can be looked at rationally by people who aren't racist as a strong argument against widespread immigration.
I'm not saying that we should stop immigration or target certain races. However, we spend enough money on prisons to seperate criminals from the general population that we should make sure we aren't allowing more in.
You can't only do that by screening legal immigrants, you have to also prevent illegal/unauthorized/undocumented/whateverPCterm entry into the country.
 
thethe said:
in reality any policy aimed at deterring illegal immigration is brandished as white nationalism
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Like it or not, this is an accurate statement, and is the type of thing that led to Trump being our President.

Tthings like being outraged over Trump's handling of the border after being silent when Obama did the same things contribute to his continued support.
 
Jaw said:
Like it or not, this is an accurate statement, and is the type of thing that led to Trump being our President.

Tthings like being outraged over Trump's handling of the border after being silent when Obama did the same things contribute to his continued support.
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Obama did not do "the same thing". He didn't politicize immigration and turn it into a focus point.
 
Runnin said:
Obama did not do "the same thing". He didn't politicize immigration and turn it into a focus point.
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You're right. Trump had the courage to do it. Obama's actions would lead one to believe he recognized the issue but didnt have the guts to do what needed to be done.
 
Let's call this what it is, Trump attempting to and got caught gifting Ukraine to Putin.
Why ?

Same could be said for entire Middle East.
 
Jaw said:
The vast overrepresentaion of migrants in Europe's crime statistics can be looked at rationally by people who aren't racist as a strong argument against widespread immigration.
I'm not saying that we should stop immigration or target certain races. However, we spend enough money on prisons to seperate criminals from the general population that we should make sure we aren't allowing more in.
You can't only do that by screening legal immigrants, you have to also prevent illegal/unauthorized/undocumented/whateverPCterm entry into the country.
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I agree with all of that. My disdain toward the current policy doesn't mean I'm not a supporter of curbing illegal immigration or that I support mass immigration either.
 
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Carp said:
I agree with all of that. My disdain toward the current policy doesn't mean I'm not a supporter of curbing illegal immigration or that I support mass immigration either.
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Yeah. Policy and demonizing an entire group of people are two different things. We would be much better off to keep the two far apart.
 
I guess statistics are only relevant for baseball.

Factual representation of data is not feminization.
 
nsacpi said:
I welcome any good faith attempt to enlighten others with data.
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I have on numerous occastion. You reject it because of your empathy towards immigrants. I respect your journey but it doesn't change the facts from the full sample.
 
nsacpi said:
Yeah. Policy and demonizing an entire group of people are two different things. We would be much better off to keep the two far apart.
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What actual changes have occurred as a result of Trump shooting off his mouth?
That's not rhetorical, I'm asking because I honestly don't know of any. We still don't have any additional border barriers, illegal entry is higher than ever, detentions and deportations are still lower than during the previous administration.

The Trump administration has meant some less than ideally targeted tax cuts, reasonable defense budgets, international trade backbone, better than the alternative SC picks, and words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 
Jaw said:
What actual changes have occurred as a result of Trump shooting off his mouth?
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I'm not sure how to answer this. I mean from time to time in my life I've said regrettable things. And I think just my saying them has caused harm to people around me. Words are powerful things.

But on a policy plane, chosen one has tried to racialize our immigration policy. More people from Norway fewer from ****hole countries. He has not been as successful as he would like. But not from lack of trying.
 
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I agree has tried, but I don't see where he's been successful. Our system has checks in place for dealing with things like that.

I agree he's a jerk. I've said before, almost anyone can come by my house in the evening and be invited to dinner. If his motorcade pulled up in my driveway I would meet him at the door and ask him to leave.

Would you classify yourself as in the group called 'deplorables?' Or amongst those of us mocked for clinging to guns and religion? Do your religious beliefs prompt others to call you a bigot? What he's doing isn't new, it's just a bit less smooth, and aimed at a new group of people who are less PC to attack.
 
Jaw said:
I agree has tried, but I don't see where he's been successful. Our system has checks in place for dealing with things like that.

I agree he's a jerk. I've said before, almost anyone can come by my house in the evening and be invited to dinner. If his motorcade pulled up in my driveway I would meet him at the door and ask him to leave.

Would you classify yourself as in the group called 'deplorables?' Or amongst those of us mocked for clinging to guns and religion? Do your religious beliefs prompt others to call you a bigot? What he's doing isn't new, it's just a bit less smooth, and aimed at a new group of people who are less PC to attack.
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Sure. I get your point. No one wants to be mocked or disrespected.
 
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