The Trump Presidency

Emilia

‏ @PoliticalEmilia

9h9 hours ago

Donald Trump cheated on his pregnant 3rd wife with a porn star,

Stormy Daniels, who’s now suing him.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the man who

won the Evangelical vote.

does anyone else think this might

"could create the appearance of possible wrongdoing "
 
A man who likes to have sex with a lot of women is evidence of wrongdoing? Leftists want that thought process to creep into our culture.
 
Hawk said:
The GOP tried literally every trick in the book (the 'pledge', bringing Mitt Romney back from the grave, pretending Kasich was a legitimate contender, etc.) to prevent DJT from being nominated.
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Yup. This one is on the electorate.

Democracy is not perfect. Just better than the alternatives. Now and then it lays a turd.

Trump is the duly elected president. Russian interference was unlikely the decisive factor. So as we move forward, I hope the people who facilitated Trump's rise will avoid burying this episode in some dusty corner of the attic and instead have the courage to give themselves an honest look in the mirror.

This ranks as one of the most monumental civic failures in U.S. history.

There are a lot of things about him that are there in plain sight for anyone willing to open their eyes to see. He is a career criminal. He is a collaborator with a hostile country. He is a misogynist. He lacks basic knowledge. He lacks basic stability and maturity. He is surrounded by a very shifty swampy group of people. Most of this has been obvious from way way back for anyone willing to open their eyes. It has been out there in the open. Trump did not hide who he is.

We got lucky in the sense that his stupidity and incompetence appear to have outstripped his venality. If the proportions between those qualities had been reversed we would be looking at a much bigger crisis.
 
nsacpi said:
Yup. This one is on the electorate.

We got lucky in the sense that his stupidity and incompetence appear to have outstripped his venality. If the proportions between those qualities had been reversed we would be looking at a much bigger crisis.
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That's the one saving grace, and the backlash.
 
thethe said:
A man who likes to have sex with a lot of women is evidence of wrongdoing? Leftists want that thought process to creep into our culture.
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I guess that's a judgment for his wife, if he has one. It is evidence of a promiscuous lifestyle, whatever that means. Openly lying about it is evidence of something else.

I thought lefties were all about free love.
 
nsacpi said:
Yup. This one is on the electorate.

Democracy is not perfect. Just better than the alternatives. Now and then it lays a turd.

Trump is the duly elected president. Russian interference was unlikely the decisive factor. So as we move forward, I hope the people who facilitated Trump's rise will avoid burying this episode in some dusty corner of the attic and instead have the courage to give themselves an honest look in the mirror.

This ranks as one of the most monumental civic failures in U.S. history.

There are a lot of things about him that are there in plain sight for anyone willing to open their eyes to see. He is a career criminal. He is a collaborator with a hostile country. He is a misogynist. He lacks basic knowledge. He lacks basic stability and maturity. He is surrounded by a very shifty swampy group of people. Most of this has been obvious from way way back for anyone willing to open their eyes. It has been out there in the open. Trump did not hide who he is.

We got lucky in the sense that his stupidity and incompetence appear to have outstripped his venality. If the proportions between those qualities had been reversed we would be looking at a much bigger crisis.
Click to expand...

One of the "most monumental civic failures in U.S history"? That brought a smirk to my face.

Trump being elected, despite all of his actual flaws, perceived flaws, and these completely irrelevant personal judgements is perhaps the quintessential example of democracy functioning flawlessly.

That your opinion of the man (and not the issues, or the party [as an aside]) does not singularly count an inch more than mine - or anyone elses.

If Trump's election stands as the vote that killed the career politician, and our silly notions of presidentiality, it will go down as one of the greatest victories for the common man that we'll likely ever witness.

Even if he goes down in flames.

'Lacking in basic knowledge, stability, and maturity' is an archetype of the modern American. Why should our President be some hammy golden God? Puhlease.
 
Hawk said:
One of the "most monumental civic failures in U.S history"? That brought a smirk to my face.

Trump being elected, despite all of his actual flaws, perceived flaws, and these completely irrelevant personal judgements is perhaps the quintessential example of democracy functioning flawlessly.

That your opinion of the man (and not the issues, or the party [as an aside]) does not singularly count an inch more than mine - or anyone elses.

If Trump's election stands as the vote that killed the career politician, and our silly notions of presidentiality, it will go down as one of the greatest victories for the common man that we'll likely ever witness.

Even if he goes down in flames.

'Lacking in basic knowledge, stability, and maturity' is an archetype of the modern American. Why should our President be some hammy golden God? Puhlease.
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I thought you would enjoy the "monumental" phrase.

I think it is an open question whether having experienced a Trump presidency voters will be more or less inclined to stick to career politicians in the future. I've been one of those who would like to see the path to the presidency opened to people with more unorthodox backgrounds. But I think choosing the wrong such person (Trump) might actually make it less likely that voters will be receptive to such people in the future. It could be argued both ways. At least for 2020, Trump has been a godsend for Joe Biden. That's my current take.

As for the American archetype, it does change over time while seemingly remaining immutable with respect to certain characteristics. I think Trump is very far from the American archetype, whatever it has become.
 
Yeah, I think that removing some of the traditional gatekeeper functions to higher office (which are often elitist and undemocratic) is a positive development, but as nsacpi says, Trump could swing that door either way.

It's a little disheartening, though, to view him as some kind of Jacksonian democratizer considering the question of his personal wealth and how it enabled him.
 
Julio3000 said:
Yeah, I think that removing some of the traditional gatekeeper functions to higher office (which are often elitist and undemocratic) is a positive development, but as nsacpi says, Trump could swing that door either way.
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There are a lot of fields where people can develop the leadership and other skills that are needed to be a good president. And a lot of very talented public-spirited people who can contribute. The door to the White House needed to be more open to those people. I might add ideally those people should serve a period as governor or mayor or some other public executive office so we can evaluate them. Congress imo is a very poor proving ground, though some good people have come out of it.
 
A good place to start is to accept separating a support for Trump from support for populism/populist candidates.

We've got to evolve our understanding of elections and the political process past the zero sum.

Electing a candidate like Trump is moving the ball down the field - not a Hail Mary.
 
Hawk said:
A good place to start is to accept separating a support for Trump from support for populism/populist candidates.

We've got to evolve our understanding of elections and the political process past the zero sum.

Electing a candidate like Trump is moving the ball down the field - not a Hail Mary.
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An equally strong case could be made that electing Trump will usher in the return of the Joe Bidens to the White House, Bidens plural.

Plus as you can probably tell I'm not exactly a populist, so that argument doesn't resonate with me.
 
Julio3000 said:
It's a little disheartening, though, to view him as some kind of Jacksonian democratizer considering the question of his personal wealth and how it enabled him.
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What does Jackson have to do with it? I mean, if we're talking about tawdry ways to accrue wealth I guess there's some small parallel there.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread make the argument that Trump is a great 'democratizer' - just that he is the product of our democratic process ... for better or worse. I don't think Trump's personal wealth propelled him politically a la Steve Forbes or Ross Perot. Dude's a tightwad. His cashed in on his celebrity.

Now, if you want to make the argument that his wealth propelled him to celebrity then you have a much stronger case.
 
nsacpi said:
An equally strong case could be made that electing Trump will usher in the return of the Joe Bidens to the White House, Bidens plural.

Plus as you can probably tell I'm not exactly a populist, so that argument doesn't resonate with me.
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If you are not a populist then you are a 1%er and you are gonna be one of the first picked off in the revolution. Just sayin'.

Look at who the Democrats are considering mounting in the New York gubernatorial race.
Look at who they tried in GA-6.
Look at Cory Booker and Kamala Harris and Julian Castro.
Look at Danica Roem in VA.
Look at Beto O'Rourke in Tejas.

I don't think you can make a strong case for careerism. I think Joe Biden would almost certainly deliver Trump the White House again in 2020 (even if he were impeached).
 
Hawk said:
What does Jackson have to do with it? I mean, if we're talking about tawdry ways to accrue wealth I guess there's some small parallel there.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread make the argument that Trump is a great 'democratizer' - just that he is the product of our democratic process ... for better or worse. I don't think Trump's personal wealth propelled him politically a la Steve Forbes or Ross Perot. Dude's a tightwad. His cashed in on his celebrity.

Now, if you want to make the argument that his wealth propelled him to celebrity then you have a much stronger case.
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I do, because I think that is central to the equation and I can't get very far into your speculation without tripping over that fact.
 
Wealth is central to the process. It's problematic, but it's not endemic to Trump.

I'd personally rather see a wealthy candidate use self-funded muscle than a candidate of lesser means take money from special interest/lobbies/benefactors and become beholden.

There's no rosy picture here.
 
Hawk said:
If you are not a populist then you are a 1%er and you are gonna be one of the first picked off in the revolution. Just sayin'.
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I have a couple good friends among the great unwashed who have promised me refuge in their basements.
 
Hawk said:
Wealth is central to the process. It's problematic, but it's not endemic to Trump.

I'd personally rather see a wealthy candidate use self-funded muscle than a candidate of lesser means take money from special interest/lobbies/benefactors and become beholden.

There's no rosy picture here.
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There's no rosy picture without transformative campaign finance reform, I'd say.

I'm not exactly stoked about the prospect of billionaire self-funders proliferatin. Given the generic choice I would probably prefer a careerist technocrat.
 
Julio3000 said:
There's no rosy picture without transformative campaign finance reform, I'd say.

I'm not exactly stoked about the prospect of billionaire self-funders proliferatin. Given the generic choice I would probably prefer a careerist technocrat.
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We're in agreement about CFR.

I don't know where I'm at these days in the broader political sphere, aside from being fairly disenchanted with government ... and put off by American society in general.
 
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